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Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by raggi on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:09PM (#36142616)
Configuring presentable fonts for the nth time was the thing that tipped me over the edge years ago to promise to myself that I will never again make another Linux desktop configuration until I see one that _out of the box_ provides a not-obviously-buggy presentation for every app that I use daily.

Since then I have yet to see an environment meet that bar, and have wasted no more time configuring X, fonts, compositors, themes, key binds, etc. I look forward to this changing one day, but I'm not expecting it soon. The ecosystem moves between technical targets too often to reach sufficient polish to meet the bar.

Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by e12e on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:30PM (#36142960)
When was this? Did you try Ubuntu 18.04 or later lts? Curious what was wrong with Wayland/Gnome and fonts.

I generally replace the monospace/console font - but i do that on MacOS and windows too.

Tbh I find the lack of decent (tiled) wm (as well as broken display on "low-res" (1440p/QHD) external displays) on MacOS much more frustrating. I make do with yabai, but the hoops one needs to jump through and the resulting fragile setup isn't great.

Hm, now i came across this - so maybe there's a decent fix for that too?

https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/03/apple_m1_drivers/

https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDisplay

Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by kitsunesoba on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:35PM (#36143055)
> broken display on "low-res" (1440p/QHD) external displays

Curious as to what's being referred to here. I've used 27" 2560x1440 displays with macOS for a long time, both with Intel and M-series Macs.

Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by maleldil on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @04:21PM (#36143752)
IME, 1440p at 27" looks really bad if you're used to 4K at 150% (effectively 1440p).

I had to buy a new monitor and went with a 1440p to save money, but returned it and got the 4K. It's significantly better.

Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by gnosek on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @04:24PM (#36143808)
I used external FHD displays and the result was a blurry mess with obvious fractional scaling applied (nothing was aligned to pixel boundaries)
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by e12e on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @06:02PM (#36144974)
The register link goes into more detail - basically Apple dropped (or never had?) fractional scaling. So for an m2 Mac the external display and internal display will look different (unlike, say with Linux/Wayland - or with an apple hidpi external display).
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by dandongus on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @07:54PM (#36146073)
They most certainly have never had fractional scaling, you get either 1x or 2x.
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by bsoft16385 on Thursday June 01, 2023 @05:30AM (#36149022)
To be more precise, fractional scaling in macOS is implemented by rendering the entire display at 2x dpi at a resolution greater than the actual display resolution, then scaling the entire output down to the display resolution.

In some ways, this is smart - it avoids the need for applications to handle anything other than 1x and 2x modes, and it avoids the complications of handling fractional pixel sizes (how does an application draw a 1 logical pixel wide line at a 1.5x scale).

In other ways it is monumentally stupid. The macOS technique wastes resources rendering at a higher resolution than you actually need. Worse, even though the downscaling is excellent in macOS, it still has ringing artifacts and it still is blurrier than native fractional scaling.

This is personally one of the things that I hate most about macOS. Many Mac laptops ship with internal displays that default to a resolution that is scaled in this way (though fortunately not the 14/16 inch Apple Silicon MacBook Pro). That's annoying, but it's not nearly as bad as the situation with external displays. I use a UHD (3840x2160) 32" display. On Windows it's perfect at 1.25x scale. On macOS, my laptop ends up rendering at 6144x3456 and then scaling the output down. This looks very noticably blurry, and it's a huge waste of resources.

Only Windows really gets this right among desktop/laptop operating systems.

GNOME uses the same behavior as macOS, except that the "render at higher resolution and scale down" options are hidden by default, and the scaling itself is a lot blurrier.

KDE does support native fractional scaling, but there are a ton of bugs related to rounding errors causing 1px gaps and random cases where applications end up being blurry, especially on Wayland. Worse, display scaling changes often don't apply until you log out or restart applications, which is particularly annoying if you have a different scale factor on an internal and external display.

Windows on the other hand handles this relatively well, although there are still some annoying bugs on Windows 10 related to the taskbar and notifications (mostly fixed in Windows 11). There are also still a lot of Windows applications that do not handle scaling at all, which end up in blur city.

Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by e12e on Thursday June 01, 2023 @06:30AM (#36149377)
> Worse, display scaling changes often don't apply until you log out or restart applications, which is particularly annoying if you have a different scale factor on an internal and external display.

This doesn't sound right - i had gnome/Wayland running on two external displays with different fractional scaling - and a window spanning the gap or being moved from one screen to the other looked fine?

This (fractional scaling) only worked under Wayland - but there it worked fine.

Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by moondev on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:28PM (#36142933)
Using a scaled resolution may affect performance.
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by pmarreck on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:23PM (#36142842)
NixOS lets you configure them once, forever.
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by Apreche on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:28PM (#36142917)
That's once too many.
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by e12e on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:31PM (#36142982)
It's the same number of times you need to configure scaling in macOS though?
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by moondev on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:38PM (#36143083)
Nope. They said out of the box. So it's "looks like 1920x1080" with a massive dock. Pure and intuitive as intended.
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by chaorace on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:51PM (#36143273)
Welcome to HN: where NixOS is evangelized with the thunderous battlecry of "People who hate configuring love configuring NixOS! If you hate configuring too, you should stop using that system you've already finished configuring and then learn to configure this new one!"
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by therein on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @04:44PM (#36144092)
It's not like NixOS never had any breaking changes.

It was my mainly driver for a few years and I remember at least a few announcements of breaking changes.

Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by 5e92cb50239222b on Wednesday May 31, 2023 @03:47PM (#36143216)
I have to wonder why you're expecting the same level of polish from an operating system (a bunch of them actually) that have to support thousands of different configurations made by third-party vendors, as from a proprietary operating system from the same vendor that makes the hardware for it (with an extremely limited set of configurations). The reason you seem to prefer macOS and Apple is the very same reason I tend stay as far away from it as possible.
Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by soraminazuki on Thursday June 01, 2023 @03:56AM (#36148569)
You’re asking for the impossible. When it comes to fonts, no single configuration would ever make everyone happy. Look at the screenshots for the out of the box appearance on Manjaro. I don’t see anything wrong with it compared to macOS. Yet, here we are.

Making a font change to an open source project is a good way to attract angry replies in issue trackers if you’re not careful. The Perfect Configuration (TM) simply doesn’t exist.

Re:macOS Like Fonts on Manjaro/Arch Linux by raggi on Thursday June 01, 2023 @05:36PM (#36157701)
Oh I agree that font and weight selection are entirely preferential.

In both of these images you can clearly see bad color bleed in the title bar font, and in the content font in the after case. I'm guessing the users main concern is that they want a higher text density which the after shot demonstrates. IMO both of these cases can be improved substantially to remove the color faults using grayscale subpixel rather than this colorful mess.

RGB subpixel has not looked good on any screen I've used in what about 10 years? The shapes of displays no longer produces good results with these techniques.

Why? Take a picture of your screen from close up with a modern phone and zoom in. You may see a non-RGB layout, but even if you don't you'll almost certainly observe a pattern where the empty space is significantly vertically larger around one boundary (often red/blue), this is related to the brightness targets monitors have been hitting for so long. As the pixels no longer align with the theoretical shape, if you can see the colors, the colors often look super trashy.