Still too early to tell

Lol no. They've saved millions of lives and trillions of dollars with no downside except in the minds of weirdo antivaxxers that p-hack their way into obviously false beliefs.

"They've saved millions of lives and trillions of dollars with no downside"

Somebody drank the Kool aid...

> Lol no

> weirdo antivaxxers

Good points, I'm sure you've put a lot of thought into this.

Every single public health professional in the world has, so I can just summarize. The modern world is pretty great.

> Every single public health professional

I beg to differ, but sure give it your best shot. Start with explaining the methodology behind the claim for "trillions of dollars saved", then continue with "no downsides".

The way you speak in absolutes is a sign you don't know what you're talking about.

Yes no thoughtful individual has ever used colloquial language good observation.

Doesn't africa have really low vaccination rate at like less than 25% in most countries?

Africa also has a population that is very young: A combination of both high birth rates and low life expectancy. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Yup. 60% of the continent’s population is under 25.

> All of the world's top 10 youngest countries by median age are in Africa, with Niger in first place with a median age of 15.1 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_in_Africa

Maybe the point that since young people are at much less risk, it would have made sense to target the vaccines at the kinds of people that COVID was a threat to, and not quarantine us all fire anyone who didn't want to take it.

So does China and other Asian countries

Contra dozens of studies showing the effectiveness and number of deaths averted in countries with strong public health reporting and organization, the existence of lower rates of disease in some African countries with low vaccine uptake is persuasive to you?

Inform yourself, please: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36074830

Found the CNN watcher who did absolutely none of their own research.

Also swallowed the "vaccines saved 10 million lives" article headline whole and didnt dig into the methodology.

"No downside" hoo boy.. I would actually pay to fly you to meet with families of those injured or killed within a week of taking the vaccine.

It's been roughly two years since the initial rollouts, and more since the clinical trials. When will it stop being "too early to tell"?

We (in the U.S.) are giving these to 5-year-olds. We don't know if there will be developmental issues, and we won't for quite some time. Remember, Pfizer wanted to hide their data for 70 years until releasing it. [1]

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/paramount-importanc...

> Remember, Pfizer wanted to hide their data for 70 years until releasing it. [1]

Please attempt to be honest with your critiques. The FDA (not Pfizer) said that with current staffing and funding levels, and given the rest of their FOIA requests, it would take 75 years to scrub and release the patient files for PII. As is completely routine, a judge told them this needed to be a priority so they would have to turn over the files in under a year.

Since then, they've turned over 780,000 pages of records and the plantiffs attorneys are all dropping off the case since they realize there's nothing there and they're just completely standard patient charts as the FDA had previously told them.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.35...

We don't know the long-term developmental effects of repeated infections either. There's no reasonable control group here.

> repeated infections

Do you mean infections with lower intensity? I still got infected second time with all the boosters. It was less intense perhaps, but not sure.

The first long term studies will be out in 2024

Do not forget that this vaccines do harm, especially youth. Probably most than any other vaccines ever does. You can find a plenty studies about this topic.

-----

Autopsy Histopathologic Cardiac Findings in 2 Adolescents Following the Second COVID-19 Vaccine Dose https://meridian.allenpress.com/aplm/article/146/8/925/47778...

Risks of myocarditis, pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias associated with COVID-19 vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infectionhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0#Aff1

Vaccine-Associated Myo/Pericarditis in Adolescents: A Stratified Risk-Benefit Analysis https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13759

Persistent Cardiac Magnetic Resonance Imaging Finfings in a Cohort of Adolescents with Post-Coronavirus Disease 2019 mRNA Vaccine Myopericarditis https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(22)00282-7/fulltext

Epidemiology of Acute Myocarditis/Pericarditis in Hong Kong Adolescents Following Comirnaty Vaccination https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34849657/

Age and sex-specific risks of myokarditis and pericarditis following Covid-19 messenger RNA vaccines https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9233673/

Goddard K.et al: Risk of myokarditis and pericarditis following BT162b2 and mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccination, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9273527/

Bardosh K.et al: COVID-19 Vaccine Boosters for Young Adults: A Risk-Benefit Assessment and Five Ethical Arguments against Mandates at Universities https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4206070

Oster M.E. et al: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based COVID-19 Vaccination in the US From December 2020 to August 2021 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346

Lai F.T. et al: Carditis After COVID-19 Vaccination With a Messenger RNA Vaccine and an Inactivated Virus Vaccine https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-3700?rfr_da...

Massari M. et al: Postmarketing active surveillance of myokarditis and pericarditis following vaccination with COVID-19 mRNA vaccines in persons aged 12 to 39 years in Italy: A multi-database, self-controlled case series study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34849657/

SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination and Myocarditis in a Nordic Cohort Study of 23 Million Residents https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/...

A Case of Vaccine-Induced Thrombocytopenic Thrombosis Manifesting as Cerebral Venous Thrombosis and Intracerebral Bleed https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9894637/

Protection and waning of natural and hybrid COVID-19 immunity https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.04.21267114v...

Acute Inflammatory Diseases of the Central Nervous System After SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination https://nn.neurology.org/content/10/1/e200063.abstract

A Comparison of Cases of Autoimmune Hepatitis After Vaccination Against COVID-19 https://journals.lww.com/acgcr/Fulltext/2023/01000/It_Can_t_...

Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis after COVID-19 vaccination: a case report and literature review https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9853928/

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report Week 42 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7

Pooled number of deaths by age group https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations by COVID-19 Vaccination Status and Previous COVID-19 Diagnosis https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

To Evaluate the Safety, Tolerability, and Immunogenicity of BNT162b2 Against COVID-19 in Healthy Pregnant Women 18 Years of Age and Older https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594

Apparent risks of postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome diagnoses after COVID-19 vaccination and SARS-Cov-2 Infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-022-00177-8

Surveillance of COVID-19 vaccine safety among elderly persons aged 65 years and older https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36496287/

Cardiovascular Manifestation of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine in Adolescents https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36006288/

COVID harms people too, but more.

Covid is not medical intervention.

I personaly know more people injured by vaccine than covid.

> Covid is not medical intervention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

> I personaly know more people injured by vaccine than covid.

Because the vaccines reduced the impact of COVID.

Why do we need the Army? I personally know of several cases of armed personnel causing fights and getting in trouble, but my country has never been invaded in a war!

Why do we need the Police? I've been fined by Police often, but I've never been robbed!

Etc...

COVID made me realise just how bad the average person's critical thinking skills really are.

Exponential growth vs linear responses especially something even otherwise intelligent people are just unable to wrap their heads around. In 2023 I still had a friend -- a mathematician -- arguing that increasing hospital bed capacity two-fold would have "solved" COVID without vaccines, disregarding that exponential curves can overwhelm any such measure.

- Because the vaccines reduced the impact of COVID.

Proove it, please.

How many healthly people dead by covid do you know personaly? Be honest.

Out of about a hundred people, one, a coworker.

That's a 1% death rate.

Was he vaccinated? How old? Was he healthly?

Please, share a data about your previous statement.