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Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by atonse on Friday May 12, 2023 @12:33PM (#35918506)
This is actually a smart model given Musk’s strengths have always been in building things and not in the day to day running of companies.

They are different skill sets.

It’s worked remarkably well to have Gwen Shotwell run things at SpaceX (she’s an awesome CEO and also an aerospace engineer). I have wished for years that he do that at Tesla.

Having an ad exec run Twitter will take care of all the “how do we pay the bills” part of running the business while he does the “fun” stuff of focusing on product.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by greenyoda on Friday May 12, 2023 @12:55PM (#35918833)
> Having an ad exec run Twitter will take care of all the “how do we pay the bills” part of running the business while he does the “fun” stuff of focusing on product.

And apparently, Twitter has millions of dollars in bills that it hasn't been paying. See this other interesting article, posted today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35918253

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by megaman821 on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:24PM (#35919181)
Not paying vendors and landlords as a negotiation tactic seems slimy. I assume they will eventually sue Twitter and win, but is there any punitive damages? If not, I am guessing Twitter will be rewarded for not paying by getting better terms on existing contracts.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by dboreham on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:33PM (#35919309)
They would at least get interest. But yes there isn't much in the way of consequences for being an asshole regarding AP.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by mrguyorama on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:30PM (#35920222)
I don't think it's uncommon. Big companies have always played dumb games with billing and contracting unless you can nail them to the wall with an ironclad "you pay us X on Y day or you pay us an extra Z per day" contract.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by failuser on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:48PM (#35920491)
Big companies have a lot of leverage. Vendors don’t want to antagonize them in hope of getting paid eventually and due to a risk of retaliation. Going to court might be a suicide by legal expenses.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by concordDance on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:52PM (#35920545)
Tenporarily not paying vendors is pretty standard for cash strapped companies. (I've worked for some, we got away with a lot)
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:04PM (#35920727)
Large companies not paying their bills because they can get away with it is such bullshit. Trump famously did this with small business contractors at some of his casinos.

The reason it's such bullshit is that it's essentially hostage taking: "Why yes, I know we owe you $10 million and that's what we agreed to, but we're just not going to pay. You can sue us, but we have top notch lawyers that can drag it out for a long time, or else you can settle with us for $7 million right now."

I think there should be an equivalent of "small claims court" for cases like these where flat out missed payments are handled quickly and without the need for expensive lawyers, e.g. "Here's our contract, there is no disagreement that we delivered, so freeze their bank accounts if they don't pay us immediately."

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by hutzlibu on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:52PM (#35922247)
Even if you have top notch lawyers, what exactly can they do, when there is a clear rent contract and no payment?
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday May 12, 2023 @09:12PM (#35924446)
Drag it out? Force you to have to hire a lawyer to get paid?

Point being, I don't think a top notch lawyer will win, but given the cost of litigation (plus the time value of money), expensive corporate lawyers can force small vendors to settle with a sizable discount.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by hutzlibu on Saturday May 13, 2023 @05:18AM (#35926837)
Yeah, but how can you drag it out, if the case is that clear?

And wouldn't have the loosing party pay everything in such a case, making it a very expensive case for them?

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lazide on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:04PM (#35923077)
For a random Joe Schmoe, retaliation via collections harassment, eviction, and credit score problems is a real worry.

For a multibillion dollar company, especially one trying to STOP using things it’s currently obligated to use, the math works out different.

After all, being evicted actually helps them, as it breaks the lease and they don’t need to keep paying.

Especially when there is a huge commercial real estate crunch looming in many of these markets.

Plenty of delay and hassle tackles can be used to get some leverage when the letter of the contract/law isn’t in your favor.

Scummy, but often effective.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by sebzim4500 on Friday May 12, 2023 @12:55PM (#35918837)
Shotwell is COO, Musk is CEO
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jonathankoren on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:35PM (#35920296)
And she runs the show at SpaceX.

Musk, CEO and “Chief Engineer”, mainly just fucks things up like causing DOD investigations into his pot use (a disagreeable government contracting clause due to the War of Drugs), and now most famously overruling the real engineers and thus overseeing the destruction of the Starship launch pad, and promoting an FAA and environmental investigation.

See also: Overruling Tesla engineers and ordering the removal of radars, directly leading to multiple preventable accidents.

He’s fuck up. Rich. But still a fuck up.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1313952039869788173?s=20

https://www.drive.com.au/news/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-engi...

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by panick21_ on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:22AM (#35928719)
Just so much nonsense.

> And she runs the show at SpaceX.

No she doesn't, and she wouldn't agree that this is the case. Only anti-Musk haters claim this.

> mainly just fucks things up

Funny thing to say about the most successful space company in history. Shotwell wasn't even COO for the initial success of the company.

> causing DOD investigations into his pot use

A literally 100% inconsequential thing that changed absolutely nothing and had no effect what so ever.You are really grasping at straws with this one.

> most famously overruling the real epromoting an FAA and environmental investigationngineers and thus overseeing the destruction of the Starship launch pad

He has the finial decision on all things at SpaceX and had them since Falcon 1 days. He didn't 'overrule' his engineers, at SpaceX decisions are usually made in big meeting with input from everybody and Musk makes the final call. Doing the launchpad upgrades before the first launch would have meant further delay of first launch, thus delaying getting flight data. Now they can evaluate the flight and fix the pad at the same time. Also the launch pad isn't destroyed, its slightly damaged. It was the wrong decision in hindsight but it isn't that relevant going forward.

He takes responsibility for things he gets wrong. He also decided not to have slosh baffles on Falcon 1. That led to its failure. He made other mistakes, if you want you can go threw the history of SpaceX and point all of them out. He also insisted on Deep Cryo fuel that lead to Amos-6 but it also helped SpaceX in the long run. And he takes ownership for these mistakes. When you make a lot of important technical choices, you get some of them wrong.

But its downright sad of you do cherry pick a few things SpaceX got wrong when SpaceX threw-out its history, with Musk as the final decision maker has clearly gotten things right far more often then they have gotten things wrong. Again, SpaceX is literally the most successful space company ever and it isn't really close. Musk has also been the longest serving CEO of pretty much any space company in the industry.

> promoting an FAA and environmental investigation

The amount of times the Musk haters people have claimed that some federal agency will destroy SpaceX because of 'evil Elon' is ridiculous. They knew the risk and some non toxic concrete wont change anything.

If we actually go by factual evidence, companies that Musk was in charge off. How successful are these companies. The result is clearly, Musk is one of the most successful business people ever.

You can personally dislike him and dislike him for choices he made, but saying he is not responsible for SpaceX and Tesla success is ridiculous.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jonathankoren on Saturday May 13, 2023 @04:45PM (#35932517)
Nice deflection. Im sure you’ll be on the B-Ark not problem.

My position is that the companies would be MORE successful if they fired his ass. SpaceX is the most successful venture, because he’s actually the least involved.

But yes, every major decision can be traced back to him, and it’s an epic fail. Hell, I even forgot about him insisting that robots could do finally assembly, even though every company that tried it failed — repeatedly.

Face it. Sempai is a screwup, and he wont let you on the B-Ark either.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by panick21_ on Sunday May 14, 2023 @04:58AM (#35936500)
> My position is that the companies would be MORE successful if they fired his ass.

So being the single most successful companies in their industry is not enough. You certainty have incredibly high opinion all the leadership behind these companies. And how do you come to this conclusion?

Shotwell is the only one being very public. She had a good career before, but not one that would suggest she could have lead an even more successful company. Most of the rest of SpaceX leaders after the initial set were promoted internally.

Nobody in the leadership of Tesla had such an amazing CV to believe the could do even better.

It seems pretty simple, you don't like him, therefore you just choice to believe that everything would be better without him even if there is no evidence that this is true.

> But yes, every major decision can be traced back to him, and it’s an epic fail.

So every major decision is a fail yet the company is hugely successful both in technology and business. You are so fucking deluded on this issue, it hurts my head to even try to understand your logic.

> Hell, I even forgot about him insisting that robots could do finally assembly, even though every company that tried it failed — repeatedly.

And yet now Tesla has some of the best manufacturing in the world. Their initial approach was flawed in execution but the direction was correct, they corrected and improved, within a year of this issue Tesla had solved the issue and had a highly profitable mass produced EV that changed the industry.

Now lots of companies are copying their processes that came out of that experience. The CEO of VW admitted the the threw-put of Tesla factories was far superior to their own.

You just repeating the same pattern over and over, blame Musk for all bad, don't give credit for good.

Your line of argument is just embracing and you would laugh at anybody making such arguments if it wasn't about Musk. This is just a simple case of you having some sort of personal hangup about Musk therefore you need to somehow justify your position.

> Sempai is a screwup

Man, I wish I had screwed up so much as to be one of the richest people in the world. What a fucking loser.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by nostrademons on Friday May 12, 2023 @12:57PM (#35918864)
It's an awkward structure to have the executive chairman and/or majority shareholder take a position (usually CTO or CPO) elsewhere in the org chart, because it means that that person is simultaneously the boss and subordinate of the CEO.

It can work - most famously, this was the structure that Google had in its golden years (2001-2011) with Eric as CEO and Larry & Sergey as presidents of Product & Technology, respectively. It also was sort of the structure of Apple with Steve Wozniak as an IC & founder. But it puts the CEO in a very awkward spot where they're in charge of the organization but not really in charge of the organization, which in turn requires leadership with great humility. That's not really what Elon is known for.

The structure of SpaceX or Facebook or Apple 1998+, where you have a visionary CEO and then strong COO under them that makes the trains run on time, is much more common and less fraught with conflicting reporting lines.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by miohtama on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:41PM (#35919444)
Eric’s position was “golden handcuffs” from investors. Musk’s case is a bit different.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by dbbk on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:02PM (#35918931)
Yeah, it basically means that at any moment he can decide to momentarily be the CEO again and overrule her.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by justrealist on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:17PM (#35919078)
But in reality any CEO is at the whim of the board, and if Elon owns > 51% of the voting shares, that's true no matter who holds any nominal title.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by nostrademons on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:37PM (#35919357)
The complexity with the Executive Chairman -> CEO -> CTO sandwich is that Elon also has a day-to-day operating role at the company.

That means that he's visible in the office (because bye-bye remote work), and when there are product/technical questions, it's unclear to employees whether Elon or Linda is the ultimate decider. It's normally not a problem that the board can fire the CEO, because employees never interact with the board and often don't know who they are. But when the chairman of the board is also an ordinary employee, some fraction of employees will follow the official reporting structure and do what the CEO wants, while some other fraction of employees will follow the "power behind the throne" and do what Elon wants. The result will be a company that can't agree what it's doing, with multiple competing groups working at cross purposes.

This was a huge problem at Google, both in the early days and today. Larry and Sergey would go directly to engineers with ideas, and then those engineers (hoping to get a coveted Founder's Award, and out of respect for the founders) would drop what they were doing and work on Larry's ideas. It worked in the 2000s, because Larry & Sergey's product judgment actually was really good - that's how we got GMail, and Chrome, and YouTube, and Android. But it's also the root cause of much of the organizational dysfunction that affects Google today. Google culture follows competence, not reporting lines, which means that one giant company is actually 1000+ small groups of unrelated projects, most of which duplicate each other, that never integrate quite right, which will often be technically brilliant but then blocked or unlaunched as soon as they cross some competing executive's path.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:41PM (#35920385)
> and when there are product/technical questions, it's unclear to employees whether Elon or Linda is the ultimate decider.

Linda, because she is the one who is there every day. If Linda thinks Elon has made the wrong call, she just has to work out how to talk him out of it while soothing his ego, and in the meantime get her team to focus on how to implement the right one. She probably already has that skill, but if she needs mentoring, Gwynne Shotwell can help her out

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by nostrademons on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:54PM (#35920569)
With Musk in the CTO role, he's either going to be there every day, or Twitter is going to have an absent CTO. Both of them are bad for decision-making efficiency.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:01PM (#35920692)
Given he is also CEO/CTO of SpaceX and Tesla, I don’t think he physically can be at Twitter every working day - unless he’s secretly cloned himself
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by nostrademons on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:02PM (#35921559)
Then he's going to be the absent (or worse, inconsistently-present) CTO, which is worse. If he's there then there's at least a chance of him and Linda working out clear roles and responsibilities. If he's totally absent then technical decisions are not going to get decided, which holds up engineering. If he's inconsistently absent then decisions may get decided when he's absent and then reversed when he shows up to the office, which makes it impossible to do any sort of long-term planning.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by iudqnolq on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:19PM (#35921795)
He obviously can't be at all three full time. Investors in SpaceX and Tesla have complained he's spending significant time in the Twitter office and neglecting the other two. Just because it would make business sense for him to focus less on Twitter doesn't mean you can assume he will - surely we can all agree, regardless of our opinion on Musk, that he frequently bucks the conventional wisdom on how a CEO should behave?
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by theGnuMe on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:56PM (#35920607)
YouTube was bought and Eric Schmidt was the one who suggested it.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by nostrademons on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:45PM (#35922145)
I thought Susan Wojciecki was the one who suggested it, she got Larry & Sergey's ear, and then together they convinced Eric.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by theGnuMe on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:09PM (#35923116)
Ah we are both wrong it was Jeff Huber:

https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1433837480449613839

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by AlchemistCamp on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:32PM (#35921137)
> The result will be a company that can't agree what it's doing, with multiple competing groups working at cross purposes.

That sounds exactly like the Twitter I've known for nearly twenty years.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by asddubs on Saturday May 13, 2023 @12:58AM (#35925687)
google bought youtube and android
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by karpierz on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:25PM (#35919203)
The difference is that normally, the CEO answers to the board every few months. And the board doesn't tell the CEO what to do; the point of a CEO is that they can be trusted to do the right move. If they can't, then they serve no purpose and will be fired.

In this structure, Elon is embedded in the decision making loop directly. The CEO normally is responsible for the company, but instead, Elon has decided that the CEO will deal with making money while he makes all of the decisions as to how the product works. Which essentially cuts the CEO of of any decision making aside from business partnerships, making her more of a VP of Sales than CEO.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lazide on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:12PM (#35921688)
Easier to sell if you’re CEO (in title, if not in actual job) than VP of Sales though.

If the issue is the advertisers need someone to escalate too (and someone who Elon would listen to when he needs talking out of some half baked idea), then it is a good fit.

If the idea is to have Twitter actually functional as a product driven engineering company, then yeah that won’t work. But baby steps.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jacobr1 on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:23PM (#35922596)
> VP of Sales though

They all want to be CROs (Chief Revenue Officer) now.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by waffle_ss on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:26PM (#35920160)
There is no board of directors. Twitter isn't a publicly-traded company any more; it's private and it's owned by Musk.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by nostrademons on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:46PM (#35920450)
Private companies still have boards of directors. It's possible to have a board of directors with only one member but this is a rarity; even non-profits and pre-funding startups will usually have a board with more than one person.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:59PM (#35920647)
> It's possible to have a board of directors with only one member but this is a rarity

It is actually extremely common for corporations which aren’t regular business as such - for example, trustees of family trusts are commonly corporations with a single director who is the person who ultimately controls the trust. Also a common structure for sole proprietorship businesses that want some protection from legal liability.

I own a company which never has done anything (I was daydreaming). Its board of directors has one member-me. Legally, I am required to hold annual board meetings with myself, although I believe the legal obligation is met if I hold them in my head. “This year’s financial results: zero revenue, zero expenses, zero assets, zero liabilities, zero employees-another great year at does-nothing-corp!”

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lazide on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:15PM (#35921725)
Meetings - yes, but still a good idea to write down minutes (seriously). It’s important documentation if you want the legal shield.

Otherwise, it’s easier to pierce the veil.

I once worked for a small Corp that the office manager was the board secretary and literally had a meeting with just herself for such a purpose.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @10:32PM (#35924909)
Minutes would be important if my company actually did anything. A company that literally does nothing doesn’t have to worry about the piercing of the corporate veil, because you first need to do something before you can become liable for it
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lazide on Friday May 12, 2023 @10:45PM (#35924983)
Unless someone sues you because of the name, or whatever. But point taken!
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by singleshot_ on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:35AM (#35929374)
I'm a little confused by this comment because a sole proprietorship cannot exist in the form of a corporation. Of course, one person can have a corporation all to themselves, but the definition of a sole proprietorship is a business without a more complex form.

I'm guessing what you actually mean is "Also a common structure for one person who does business on their own, who has incorporated, and who is their own sole board member." Is my inference correct?

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Saturday May 13, 2023 @02:02PM (#35930930)
What I mean is a person who has a sole proprietorship desires greater legal protection, so they set up a corporation to replace their sole proprietorship, but it is still just a one natural person-owned business-in legal terms it is no longer a sole proprietorship, but in non-legal terms nothing has changed
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by 3r3rni9 on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:29PM (#35921095)
Musk fired the board in Oct 2022. I can’t find anything about them reforming it.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lazide on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:15PM (#35921731)
It’s private now, they don’t need to disclose anything.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by dbbk on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:14PM (#35922504)
Don't they? In the UK at least they need to be disclosed to Companies House and that data is public.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lazide on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:36PM (#35922758)
Sure enough - but that is for the UK subsidiary, which is just going to follow the US companies directions. They wouldn't be independent.

[https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...]

Interestingly, they're overdue on their bill with Companies House it looks like. Oops.

Lots of entities in Delaware named Twitter Inc. (3) plus what might be a holding company or two. Hard to tell without more digging.

[https://icis.corp.delaware.gov/eCorp/EntitySearch/NameSearch...]

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by dbbk on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:18PM (#35923206)
I was just saying more generally, I don't know if the US has similar rules. Also I think the legal entity has changed to X Corp now.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jacobr1 on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:26PM (#35922634)
This is common in the US too, usually they need to file with their state. Going private will often remove the need to file publicly with the SEC though (though even then, that depends on things like how many shareholders there are, not the trading status as such).
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:52PM (#35920546)
All companies have boards of directors, even privately owned one.

Small firms it is common to have a single person board of directors, where that single person is the 100% owner.

When private equity takes a large firm private, they’ll often appoint a board full of their own partners and consultants/advisers-if you own 20 different firms, you don’t want to deal with all their CEOs, you want a layer between the CEO and you-which is where the board helps.

100% subsidiaries (such as a large multinational firm’s local subsidiary in each country) commonly have multi-person boards of directors, with a handful of local senior staff on it (e.g. country director, head of local finance, HR and general counsel) - they usually all just rubber stamp whatever HQ wants, although occasionally they might refuse (e.g if local counsel insists HQ’s demands are illegal and complying with them would make the directors personally liable)

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by waffle_ss on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:00PM (#35922329)
Not all companies. Only corporations are required to have boards. LLCs are not - their structure is dictated entirely by articles of organization.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:18PM (#35922551)
It depends on the country. Where I live (Australia), we don’t have “LLCs”, we do have “PTY LTDs”, which are like an LLC - but it is a corporation and all corporations have directors, although the majority of PTY LTDs are sole director sole shareholder. Here, all companies are corporations

I should point out that in the traditional legal sense of the term, even US LLCs are corporations-it is just that people in the US have adopted some weird redefinition of “corporation” which excludes them. Under Australian law, a US LLC is a corporation, albeit a foreign one. Worldwide, I think most countries legal systems would reach the same conclusion

The British monarchy is a corporation (a corporation sole) - actually, a whole bunch of distinct single member corporations (the monarch), one for each Commonwealth realm, and also one for each Australian state and Canadian province - each called “the Crown in right of X”. Maybe that’s an example of a corporation without any directors, although one might (rather meaninglessly) claim the monarch is the sole director

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by mjfl on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:37PM (#35922027)
he paid $44 billion to own the company
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by peanuty1 on Friday May 12, 2023 @11:05PM (#35925081)
He and a group of other investors including a16z, Binance, and Sequoia.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by atonse on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:20PM (#35919120)
Yes! How could I forget one of my favorite examples, Eric Schmidt at google. It was a brilliant move.

But you have a great point about CEO vs COO. As the technical CEO of a small company myself (who loves building things), I know you just have to deal with certain things directly and dedicate your name and time (not complaining, that's just the job) and that takes time away from the day to day building.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:36PM (#35920313)
Oracle has had Larry Ellison as chairman/CTO, and someone else as CEO, for almost 10 years now - and they’ve done well (financially at least) over the period. They even started out with two joint CEOs (Mark Hurd and Safra Catz), but were reduced to one by Mark Hurd’s sudden untimely death. Ellison isn’t majority owner, but he does own over a third of the stock.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by bbarnett on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:02PM (#35920702)
Oracle, what a crazy company. Its only goal seems to be to buy things, and then destroy them.

I interviewed there a decade ago. Response: someone told me I wasn't a culture fit.

But this wasn't the normal "culture fit" response, oh no. You could tell it was a "you aren't willing to drink the coolaid" type of response. I feel I dodged a bullet.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:12PM (#35920842)
I worked for Oracle for almost 10 years. My memories of working there is of just a lot of totally normal everyday people doing the same things as at any other large corporation. Some of the business and technical decisions were embarrassing, yet somehow they found a way to just keep on making boatloads of money anyway.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by nostrademons on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:13PM (#35921705)
Oracle isn't exactly a shining example. If you ask anyone technical who professionally came of age in the last 25 years what they're known for, the answer will be "lawsuits".

Your comment is a pretty good example of the kind of organizational dysfunction that results from unclear reporting and leadership vacuums. From the inside, lots of people are doing their job and doing their job well. From the outside, all this activity and all these highly-paid and highly-talented employees don't result in anything novel or useful. The company keeps chugging along, making boatloads of cash from its existing customers because old habits die hard, but gradually loses its capacity to adapt to market shifts. Then when a market shift happens, it goes out of business.

Twitter's problem is that a market shift is already underway, and their financials are precarious. Companies like Oracle or IBM can limp along for decades as long as their customers stay in business. Google is in the middle - their business is probably more precarious now than it's been in 20 years. Twitter is at imminent risk of death in the next 1-3 years if they don't turn the ship around.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:48PM (#35922178)
I’ve seen people choose Oracle Cloud because it was cheaper than AWS/GCP/Azure. Maybe Oracle is selling at a loss to gain more market share, but if you design things right, moving to another provider isn’t that hard. In practice, AWS seems to have much more vendor lock-in

Oracle has so many acquired products, many businesses are paying for one and people don’t even notice. For example, NetSuite for accounting. Cerner runs hospitals. Lots of industry-specific software in utilities, insurance, manufacturing, etc

Compared to (say) IBM, Oracle is much keener on killing legacy products

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by nyolfen on Saturday May 13, 2023 @12:25AM (#35925502)
i use oracle cloud for its extraordinarily generous free tier but it is straight up the worst website for any cloud service i've ever encountered, it reminds me of going into a retail shop that is clearly a money laundering front. the dashboard page seems purposefully designed to prevent you from managing your assets and i had to contact a support agent to figure out how to attach a credit card to my account.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Saturday May 13, 2023 @01:14AM (#35925789)
I'm not talking about free usage, I'm talking about people spending serious money on cloud services. Cases I've heard about, Oracle sales were willing to engage in much more aggressive discounting on a large deal than AWS or GCP or Azure were, making going with Oracle pretty much a no-brainer from a cost viewpoint. I've heard similar stories about IBM as well. I suppose the second-tier players feel a need to fight for business that the first-tier players don't.

No idea about their web UI (although it can't possibly be as bad as the UIs of some of their legacy on-premise products) – but serious usage one tends to use the APIs much more than the web UI.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lazide on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:17PM (#35921763)
From the rumor mill, Oracle sales teams are amazingly amoral, even by enterprise standards. But very pleasant to be around if you have money.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by skissane on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:36PM (#35922008)
I used to work very closely with Oracle sales teams in Australia-and I never saw anyone I worked with directly do anything “amoral”.

I heard about a few things on the grapevine, but in a 100,000 person company things are going to happen, you can’t really generalise from the occasional incident.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lazide on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:58PM (#35923016)
The rumors were specifically what happened when no one was looking, and the customers were always happy with it. But who knows. All second hand.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by johannes1234321 on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:37PM (#35920320)
It's the model his friend Larry Ellison uses with Oracle.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by phkahler on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:20PM (#35920958)
Yeah, imagine having to trust each other?
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by easytiger on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:44PM (#35922864)
> It's an awkward structure to have the executive chairman and/or majority shareholder take a position (usually CTO or CPO) elsewhere in the org chart, because it means that that person is simultaneously the boss and subordinate of the CEO.

That's a good description and it is the de facto structure of a great many companies I've worked in/with. I would say it's relatively normal to be honest

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by dwater on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:10PM (#35918979)
To make money she has to sell ads, to sell ads she needs to make the platform palatable for advertisers, which means going back to pre-Elon content moderation, which he clearly doesn't want to do. Her title might as well be VP of Sales given the power dynamic he's communicating.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by asmor on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:34PM (#35919325)
given the number of (far) right figureheads she follows[1], appealing to advertisers that care about these kinds of optics doesn't seem to be part of the plan

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/13f45mw/com...

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by mrguyorama on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:28PM (#35920200)
That doesn't seem a useful metric, as surely that isn't an exhaustive list, and following someone on twitter is not a useful signal that you share their philosophy. Lot's of "hate" following on twitter.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by asmor on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:02PM (#35921551)
As a future CEO of Twitter trying to get advertisers back on board, I'd sure as hell curate my follows. It's not like she's a random user.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by hutzlibu on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:48PM (#35922192)
If "follow" would be replaced with "observe", I might observe some peoples activities.

But actually following any of them? No thanks.

Language is important and I think lots of it, like "facebook friends" was not choosen well.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by mrguyorama on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:51PM (#35922236)
But I don't think advertisers GAF about her personal beliefs or philosophy, as long as their ads don't show up next to beheadings or nazis. She is already an advertising executive
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by zassy on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:38PM (#35923415)
Nah dude, the huge companies that use record profits to buy back stock instead of giving raises to their employees struggling to afford their cost of living and who routinely pull shit like laying off and rehiring people to new positions so they have a reason not to give them raises and closing down stores that even discuss the idea of unionizing would totally draw the line at advertising at a company that has a CEO that follows rightoids instead of leftists.

If there’s one thing that massive for profit corporations can’t stand it’s capitalism.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by InfiniteRand on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @04:34PM (#35967388)
I think most famous people, unless they are known for their Twitter handle, farm out the Twitter account to the interns
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by dboreham on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:32PM (#35919285)
"Golden parachute collector"
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by lapcat on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:15PM (#35920000)
For her sake, I hope the parachute is not in X/Twitter stock...
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jacobr1 on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:35PM (#35922735)
> which means going back to pre-Elon content moderation

Not necessarily, it depends how things get implemented.

There isn't any reason Twitter couldn't build content classification tools that allowed advertisers to select which content to cluster and be targeted with and which content to exclude for perception reasons. The latter is easier than full moderation because it is much more tolerant of false positives.

Or it could focus on distinct product, like whatever their new video content platform thing is going to be.

Or maybe DM based ads.

Or opening up the third party ecosystem again and doing more on the channel side.

Or Musk has said a bunch of things about payment platforms that he wanted to do a paypal and wasn't able to implement but now has an opportunity to try. Similarly for things like identity/IAM products or other internet glue.

Or they could pivot into other advertising platforms and manage spend and and automation across different social media properties in addition to Twitter's own.

Lot's of different potential direction.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by athenot on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:22PM (#35919146)
Indeed, these are 2 different skill sets. But wouldn't that be a Chief Operating Officer then, instead of a CEO?
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by Veserv on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:45PM (#35919507)
Musk is not a engineer and has never been good at making things. What he is good at is marketing and raising ridiculous gobs of money which he plows into various companies. All credit for engineering successes at those companies is entirely because of the leadership of those companies, like Gwynne Shotwell, and despite Musk's interference which we have seen time and time again to be actively detrimental to engineering success.

That is not to say that Musk's interference is "bad" from a company valuation standpoint as he clearly has a pretty good idea of what features he can effectively market to customers, it is just that those features are not markers of good engineering or actively detract from good engineering. For instance, selling FSD to the general public despite it not working is a criminal engineering decision, but it has done wonders for cash flow and their stock price.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by RegularOpossum on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:00PM (#35919705)
It might not even be raising money that he's good at but rather structuring business to optimize around government subsidies (ev credits, government space contracts).
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by Veserv on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:16PM (#35920015)
Nah, he is shockingly good at raising money. SpaceX has been losing billions of dollars per year and making it up by raising money to cover the shortfall. In the last year or so they raised $1.7B at a $137B valuation [1]. This is a company that is only estimated to make $4.6B in revenue [2] in a industry with a total addressable market (TAM) of ~$13.5B. SpaceX is being valued at ~30x revenue and ~10x the revenue of the entire industry, not earnings, revenue.

Of course, this is all small potatoes compared to the immense amount of money Musk has raised for Tesla from consumers by falsely claiming they will have autonomous vehicles next year, every year, for 7+ years.

These raises are distinct from any government support they may have received, though his ability to structure the companys to receive government support and the cash flow generated from those activitys may have been helpful in supporting the companys and the narratives they built to achieve the valuations and funding levels they got. It really just all leads back to him being amazing at getting his hands on huge gobs of money.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2023/01/03/spacex-...

[2] https://payloadspace.com/predicting-spacexs-2023-revenue/

[3] https://www.polarismarketresearch.com/industry-analysis/spac...

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by RegularOpossum on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:46PM (#35922881)
But the logical question is, could any of that been possible without the government subsidies he received? I think without that prior optimization for subsidies, he's not given the creditability or ever actual credit to do any of the other shenanigans.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by zassy on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:57PM (#35923590)
Even if he couldn’t, so what?

EV subsidies were made as a way for the government to encourage consumers to buy electric cars and encourage car producers to make electric cars. It’s not like they were made with the purpose of making Musk rich and literally any other car manufacturer or rich person wanting to make a car manufacture could have done the same. Should the US have never subsidized electric vehicles or should have all the car manufacturers have ignored the subsidies and continued to to completely ignore the EV market?

Complaining that someone filled a market niche that the government very intentionally created just seems so weird to me.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by dotnet00 on Saturday May 13, 2023 @03:45AM (#35926464)
What's the point of making up misleading arguments? Are you that blinded by your dislike of one person?

SpaceX has been spending billions on R&D, that's what the fund raising is for, that's why their spending is greater than revenue, the results of which are clearly visible in the weekly Starlink launches and rapid development of Starship and which have a strong business case.

This sort of bad faith analysis is exactly why companies in industries with significant "front heavy" investment have such a hard time.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by 908B64B197 on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:51PM (#35920541)
> government space contracts

Honestly, I would rather send my tax dollars to SpaceX, that over-delivered on it's promises than to other players, like ArianeEspace... [0]

[0] https://www.space.com/europe-no-reusable-rocket-until-2030s

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by panick21_ on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:48AM (#35928927)
This is nonsense. I have many comments disproving this nonsense. And EV credits only happened long after Tesla was already well underway. And it was also something that all car companies could and did use.

In fact, credit hurt Tesla quite a bit because they burned threw them very early on when lithium batteries were super expensive and then later foreign competitors could undercut Tesla using mass market vehicles by using the credits.

And fuel credits are an enforcement mechanism that gives rewards and penalties to car companies based on how well they follow regulations, its not a government subsidy.

> government space contracts

If you want to see how well space companies do when they only do government work, look at ULA and Boeing.

SpaceX from the beginning attacked the commercial market with great success and the US went from 0% of the commercial market to like 60-70% in like 5 years.

Yes of course SpaceX gets government space contracts, its fucking space, governments are involved. But SpaceX was literally the least government oriented rocket company in history.

If you actually compare SpaceX to other space companies and Tesla to other car companies, the claim that these companies are uniquely depended on government totally collapse.

Just one example, Tesla got 400M$ loan to produce Model S (advanced vehicle manufacture), Tesla paid this loan back with profit for the tax payer before they had to and change the car industry, Ford and GM took multi-billion $ loans built a few compliance vehicle and have since delayed the return of those loans.

But yeah, Tesla is evil subsidy company, when they received less and did more.

And the claim about his companies raising huge amount of money is also false, compare Tesla and SpaceX with its peers, like Lucid, Rivian, Blue Origin, Relativity and that story falls competently apart.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jdiez17 on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:48PM (#35920504)
I'm no Elon fan but as an aerospace engineer, I can at least vouch that he knows what he is talking about when it comes to rockets (wasn't the case when SpaceX started) and has steered his army of engineers in useful directions that weren't obvious to other people at the time (reusable rockets, Starlink, etc.)

If you have watched Everyday Astronaut's tours of Starbase with Elon[0], where he explains in significant detail pretty much everything that is going on with the various prototypes, you'll know what I mean.

He's not a guy with an MBA that has somehow lucked out by throwing gobs of cash at various Hard Engineering Problems (although there's that, too.) Of course the bulk of the work is done by "rank and file" engineers.

[0] e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7MQb9Y4FAE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by bobsil1 on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:50PM (#35920528)
>he knows what he is talking about when it comes to rockets

At a surface level. If you ever drill down on his shallow tech understanding, he sputters, kicks you out or flees.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jdiez17 on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:58PM (#35920644)
No, at the level of knowing off hand the design considerations down to thermodynamics for practically every design decision that Tim asks about. In many cases to a much greater depth than I, an average engineer, know about these things.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by bobsil1 on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:00PM (#35920675)
He can regurg briefings, look again at what he says in anything you’re an expert in. E.g. software: he’s a total fraud.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by agumonkey on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:40PM (#35921254)
In my noob eyes, I think he just doesn't care much about software. He kinda have the same radical motto (delete, reduce, combine, forget the past, forget the mainstream.. basically what he says around min 20 in the video above. which is not far from move fast and break things) and he got a lot of success before with that so he just barged in twitter applying this brainlessly.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by tmn on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:37PM (#35921212)
The amount of effort people take to try to convince themselves Elon is just a relatively average (or even moronic!) intellect who got successful via non virtuous means is absolutely impressive.

To attempt to be civil, I will also state I find the hero worshiping of Elon to be similarly deranged.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by AlchemistCamp on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:36PM (#35921198)
You're replying to an aerospace engineer talking about aerospace engineering.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jdiez17 on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:05PM (#35920740)
The stochastic parrot argument. It seems there’s no evidence that will change your opinion.

Also, have a look at recent unedited videos of Tesla’s self driving. It’s not everything that was promised and it’s much later than promised, but it sure is impressive. However I agree it is being oversold and that’s extremely scummy.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by jpamata on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:45PM (#35921320)
With rockets, he is deeply involved in the area and his proficiency have been confirmed by top engineers, a few quotes from them here:

https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...

I'm not sure about Elon's proficiency with software, but based on his comments on twitter I'd lean on him being out of touch there. He does seem to be knowledgeable on the AI/DL side though, see Andrej Karpathy's comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33703617

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by dang on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:29PM (#35921926)
Would you please stop posting like this? It's tedious, not what this site is for, and you've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

p.s. I don't care whether it's boo or yay, we just don't want shallow flamewars on this site.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by bobsil1 on Friday May 12, 2023 @07:05PM (#35923637)
Yes, I’ll stop commenting here entirely. DanG, please delete my account.

Last time I got mod-bonked here, it was over calling Zuck “amoral.” Then all the Cambridge Analytica, Russian ops and boosting right-wing propaganda scandals came out.

I’m positing Elon is an obvious con man. Y’all will get there too 🫡

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by electrondood on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:19PM (#35923212)
This comment is ridiculous. The guy understands every single facet of every process at his companies. If he "sputters," it's because that's how he normally speaks.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by Dig1t on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:16PM (#35921744)
>Musk is not a engineer and has never been good at making things

There is ample proof that this is a patently false statement.

Link with sources: https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...

My favorite from John Carmack: John Carmack (Twitter, Wikipedia) is a programmer, video game developer and engineer. He's the founder of Armadillo Aerospace and current CTO of Oculus VR. "Elon is definitely an engineer. He is deeply involved with technical decisions at spacex and Tesla. He doesn’t write code or do CAD today, but he is perfectly capable of doing so."

There are tons of pictures of Elon in the early days of SpaceX literally using CAD software to design rockets: https://i.insider.com/63a0c11eb5600000185b5e8d?width=1300&fo...

https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-history-biggest-momen...

His title at the company is Founder and Chief Engineer, and there are tons of anecdotes from employees, as well as statements directly from Musk that major engineering decisions go directly through him.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by peteradio on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:46PM (#35922154)
Ya know I was doubtful of Elons engineering chops but that pic certainly seals the deal. Elon is in fact a rocket engineer and the proof is in the pudding. The pudding being that pic that is.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by Dig1t on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:42PM (#35923461)
Well if you don’t like that pic you can also read the other links, which themselves include sources. You could also read his biography, which details his early life, credentials, and daily work life, and includes sources. I included the picture as just another detail.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by peteradio on Friday May 12, 2023 @07:08PM (#35923660)
I don't care about that other stuff, got anymore pics demonstrating his rocket engineering prowess?
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by belter on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:58PM (#35922304)
They said Steve Jobs was not a coder or hardware engineer but I just found undeniable proof. It was not Wozniak but instead, Steve Jobs that was doing the software development at Apple": - https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/30494-50055-001-Job...
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by Dig1t on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:51PM (#35923543)
Well if you don’t like that pic you can also read the other links, which themselves include sources.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by pmoriarty on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:34PM (#35922720)
"He doesn’t write code or do CAD today, but he is perfectly capable of doing so."

Can't speak to what it takes to do CAD, but as a developer I know for a fact that being capable of writing code is a very low bar.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by Dig1t on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:49PM (#35923521)
Yeah I’m not sure either TBH, I’m not a CAD person, just a programmer.

I do think the picture painted of him tracks with what I know life is like as a senior engineer.

Above L5 at Google, most engineers do not spend much time coding. Most time is spent approving CLs, mentoring, collaborating on design docs, and helping to make major engineering decisions.

Same with other faangs. This tracks with Carmack’s (and others’) description of Musk’s role.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by Veserv on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:07PM (#35923107)
Elon Musk is a compulsive serial liar about his personal qualitys.

In Paypal’s S-1 filing with the SEC in 2002 [1] to go public Elon Musk is listed as a director of the board and is reported as having graduated from UPenn in 1995. Elon Musk received his degrees in 1997 [2]. I do not know about you, but I do not know any college graduate who can not tell me the exact year of their graduation after a little thinking even if they graduated decades ago, but in this case he could not even accurately recall what occurred 5 years ago and he reported that in a SEC filing of a company where he was on the board (and formerly CEO?). Sometimes people forget the year they graduated, but not in SEC filings reviewed by lawyers, that is 100% deliberate.

Elon Musk viciously attacks his critics like when he viciously accused Vernon Unsworth, the cave diver, of being a pedophile, doubled down, and sent a investigator to harass him [3].

Elon Musk actively cultivates a cult of personality and directs them to attack his critics [4] causing them to be fired or quit due to the harassment.

He is also well known to impulsively fire employees that speak out against him. Also to harass employees who are being fired such as when he declared that the Iceland Person of the Year was faking his lifelong disability to get out of work [5].

Elon Musk does not get the benefit of the doubt when discussing his personal qualitys and when looking for 3rd party support since he makes significant effort to actively shape the narrative.

His personal statements are useless as support. Most of the people quoted were employees speaking on the record. You would be hard pressed in any company to find employees who would speak negatively on the record, let alone in a Elon company where he would fire, harass, and sue you if you did so. So, those are worthless. The rest of the people are then largely people who have not worked with Elon or are not experts in the field. And frankly, since Elon does not get the benefit of the doubt, the burden of proof is not on me to discredit their statements, but on the opposing perspective to provide proof that their statements are informed and credible.

As to the photos, the first one is obviously staged. The photo of him looking at wreckage unrelated to demonstrating engineering competence. It is also likely staged. No other images presented are relevant.

Labeling yourself as a Chief Engineer does not make you a engineer. In anything it lends support to the opposite because what actual engineer constantly broadcasts that at every possible opportunity so that everybody knows.

[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1103415/000091205702...

[2] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/musk-physics-degree/

[3] https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/08/elon-musk...

[4] https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/10/28/cars/tesla-ntsb-cummings/...

[5] https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/07/elon-musk...

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by panick21_ on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:34AM (#35928802)
> marketing and raising ridiculous gobs of money

People love to claim this but its just not true. Compare how much money Tesla raised to other EV companies. Tesla did far, far better with far less money.

The accusation that his companies are successful because he can just magically create money comes from tech people who have no idea how much it costs to grow capital intensive business.

Both SpaceX and Tesla have comparatively raised very little. Compare how much Lucid, Rivian, Blue Origin or Relativity Space raise and then compare the results after similar time-frames.

> All credit for engineering successes at those companies is entirely because of the leadership of those companies, like Gwynne Shotwell

Shotwell wasn't even the COO of SpaceX before Falcon 9 days. And magically Tesla doesn't even have a Shotwell figure and is still incredibly successful.

And even if Shotwell is great, Musk hired her, Musk promoted her, Musk empowered her. Putting the right engineers into the right places is maybe the most important skill in leading a tech team. Musk putting Mueller, Königsmann, Buzza, Shotwell in those positions and gave them all what the needed to succeed, while he coordinated and made the final decisions. That is what 'Chief Engineers' generally do.

> we have seen time and time again to be actively detrimental to engineering success

Except that far more often we have seen it to be extremely successful. I'm always astonished at how people who seem to dislike Musk can selectively read history. Anything bad at SpaceX, Musk is at fault. Anything good, Musk wasn't involved.

> but it has done wonders for cash flow and their stock price

It really hasn't, if you actually look at their cashflow. But maybe I'm not looking at the fantasy investor report you have in your head. I just looking at the one that is publicly disclosed by Tesla.

And in terms of stock price, if you actually look at all the major wall street analysts, the majority of them never had a huge amount of believe in FSD being a major driver of Tesla and only included it into their most optimistic long run bull cases.

Tesla stock really jumped when they showed profitable margin Model 3 mass production and spiked for a while when the market went crazy for all EV stocks. Not just those who claimed to have 'FSD'.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by bobsil1 on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:48PM (#35920487)
> Musk’s strengths have always been in building things

*Hyping things, pumping stock, raising $.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by kernal on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:21PM (#35922581)
How many Billion dollar companies have you created?
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by belter on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:34PM (#35922733)
How many have you run to the ground?
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by kernal on Monday May 15, 2023 @11:19AM (#35949630)
It's funny how you've created the mental gymnastics needed to conceptualize Twitter as a healthy, profitable non propagandist and non leftist controlled company before Elon bought it.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by panick21_ on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:55AM (#35928990)
This might hold up on Twitter or maybe some reddit.

If you actually want to argue on HN, you need to actually provide some analysis.

Because factually speaking, if you actually compare Tesla and SpaceX with peer companies rather then by themselves they have not raised a lot of money relative to what you achieved.

Go and actually compared Tesla, Rivian, Lucid (not to mention other bullshit companies like Nikola, Faraday Future, Better Place) and so many others. You will see that Tesla for a such a capital intensive business didn't raise that much.

A few times they optimistically raised when the stock jumped, but that's just good business. And if you actually look at their cash balance, that money was never even spent. It permanently raised the balance. Tesla would have been totally fine without the last 2 cash raises.

And for SpaceX its far harder to do the pump and raise shit you are talking about. Its only large institutional investors who don't randomly just buy lots because of some 'pump'. The funds investing in SpaceX have a lot of their own technical knowlage and evaluate things deeply.

So in summation, your claims have zero bases in reality, its just away to justify your hate for a person.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by arcticbull on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:55PM (#35920596)
> This is actually a smart model given Musk’s strengths have always been in building things and not in the day to day running of companies.

Are they? The majority of his successes came from investment, not from building.

[edit] I think his superpower may be wealth, like iron man.

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by concordDance on Friday May 12, 2023 @03:45PM (#35921325)
The baseless myth that Elon inherited millions still won't die it seems...

(To cut to the chase there, Elon seems to have gotten around $90k from his father, of which $28k was a loan. You can check out Errol Musk's Sun interview and the wikipedia article for more info)

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by arcticbull on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:58PM (#35923014)
I didn't say anything about the emerald mine rumor that Elon himself is responsible for. It was his quote from a 2014 Forbes article no longer live on their site. [1]

> Elon Musk: "... In South Africa, my father had a private plane we’d fly in incredibly dangerous weather and barely make it back. This is going to sound slightly crazy, but my father also had a share in an Emerald mine in Zambia."

I was talking about how a lot of his success came from Tesla, where he wasn't a founder, but instead an early investor. He started calling himself a founder one day, and the actual founders sued him. They settled. [2]

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20140729222547/http://www.forbes...

[2] https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/tesla-ceo-settles-for-...

Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by concordDance on Friday May 12, 2023 @07:14PM (#35923700)
Thank you for clarifying.
Re:I am excited to welcome Linda Yaccarino as the new CEO of... by andrewjl on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:01PM (#35923050)
In the case of both Apple and Meta the (then, in the case of the former) founder-CEOs delegated the "how do we pay the bills" thing to a trusted COO instead, a markedly different approach from what Musk did.