What a weird comment. The ozone hole WAS a huge problem… and then the world banned CFCs and we fixed it. But it took years of lawsuits, journalism, and scientists speaking up.

Similarly, global warming is a huge problem today and threatens our future. We will fix it just like we did the ozone hole, but again it will take decades of lawsuits, science, public outcry.

The problem this time is twofold: the rise of conspiracy theorists in the Republican Party, who refuse to even acknowledge the problem, and the stranglehold that globalist neoliberal corporations have on the economy.

The second being what you meant in your last paragraph. It’s hard to actually address waste, overconsumption, and pollution when our economy and government is controlled by a handful of corps, who are getting better and better at greenwashing.

>The problem this time is twofold: the rise of conspiracy theorists in the Republican Party, who refuse to even acknowledge the problem, and the stranglehold that globalist neoliberal corporations have on the economy.

Well this time it's a lot worse because not using CFCs had a comparatively small impact on the world economy, with a big payoff.

There is currently no realistic path to keep somewhat decent living standards for the number of people we have, while ramping down the world economy sufficiently to battle global warming.

Even if everybody turned vegan and stopped flying it wouldn't be enough.

Wood was once used to power engines, then coal, then oil and in current days electricity. The sooner you move to the next stage of evolution, the more efficient you can become and better afford to preserve natural resources.

What most people forget is that pollution comes from the basic need of survival and improving life quality. So you need efficiency and balance what matters for most humans.

Instead of forcing everyone to become vegan and to stop flying, how about supporting the industries that create artificial meat cheaper than the real thing and airplanes that run on electricity? (both of these things already exist nowadays)

>Instead of forcing everyone to become vegan and to stop flying, how about supporting the industries that create artificial meat cheaper than the real thing and airplanes that run on electricity?

I was saying everybody turning vegan and stopping flying entirely wouldn't be enough.

Flying on electricity and lab grown meat still use a lot of energy compared to not having those.

You're actually making my point really well. Extreme measures aren't enough, so why not do less than that? Nobody wants to give up their quality of life. Especially not sufficiently to stop climate change.

Now I'm confused. Are you actually advocating for the world to stop eating meat or is that one of those things people call sarcasm?

Don't see a problem in using more energy. There is already nuclear power since decades, just use it.

I doubt there is much of a discussion to be had here, but at least you could try to get easily verifiable dates right.

Global cooling: 1970s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

Ozone layer depletion: succesfully mitigated starting in the 1980s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_for_the_Pr...

Anthropogenic global warming: scientific consensus since around 1990 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_First_Assessment_Report

For reference, it's the year 2023 now.

Don't really care. Basically the same old tricks with new faces. Even worse when you try to use the word "consensus" when it was everything except that.

End result for europeans is paying more taxes while other places keep doing far worse. I'll be damned to yet see any of those groups advocating for more nuclear power around here to save the environment.

Sure this isn't binary and plenty has improved in regards to ecology when you want to nitpick on reddit-style, what truly bothers me is the sheer percentage of green washing instead of focus on real improvement.

It's bizarre to me that climate skeptics think the ozone issue is a point in their favor. Ozone depletion was a real issue, but the international community came together and banned the use of CFCs. Since then ozone levels stabilized and then started to recover. They should reach pre-1980s levels this century based on current trends. It is a clear example of collective action successfully addressing a climate problem.

It was as much of a real issue as corona recently.

Both got solved with the same approach. If you went ahead getting untested vaccines into your body then for sure you also tolerate more taxes in name of "climate change".

Albeit we live on the same planet it does seem we live in two different worlds and look at the same things in opposite manner. I don't care what "science" has to say or whatever happy reality you live where "collective action" happens.