Re:Some mistakes I made as a new manager
by 29athrowaway on Sunday April 23, 2023 @09:25PM
(#35682646)
There are limits to the freedom of expression.
Fraud, defamation (libel, slander), perjury, etc.
No matter what your position is, you are not free from the consequences of those.
This doesn't answer my question, and I didn't say anything about "freedom of expression" because it doesn't apply here.
Again, do you have a documented instance of an individual manager, preferably at a company larger than ~100 people, getting personally sued after a dismissal of one of their direct reports?
Re:Some mistakes I made as a new manager
by 29athrowaway on Monday April 24, 2023 @05:38AM
(#35685445)
Claims of defamation are often part of discrimination and wrongful termination suits.
I am a lawyer. I guess it's technically true you (or more likely your company) can get sued if a manager lies about his reports' performance to their detriment (usually we'd call this discrimination) but the general notion that it is or should be more common is stupid.
Re:Some mistakes I made as a new manager
by 29athrowaway on Monday April 24, 2023 @05:39AM
(#35685451)
If it happens more, there should be more litigation activity as as consequence.
Re:Some mistakes I made as a new manager
by bluefirebrand on Sunday April 23, 2023 @10:21PM
(#35682976)
> As long as there's a paper trail, you as an employee don't have much of a chance of winning a lawsuit, even if you feel like you were fired due to your manager being an asshole.
Yeah, if you want to win a wrongful dismissal lawsuit you're gonna have to have a hell of a paper trail yourself, or some smoking gun evidence of other wrongdoing like drunken voice mail recordings or something.
And even then, realistically, this sort of things settles out of court more often than not.
Genuinely curious: do you have an example of a manager who was personally held financially liable after firing an employee? I couldn't find an example in some brief Googling, but IANAL and I'm curious if this is even a possibility.
Even if it is possible, though, it seems... pretty stupid, frankly: you'd get a much higher payout from suing the company rather than the manager directly, and the manager could use corporate policy as a shield. Plus, in most organizations, HR is the one who pulls the trigger, not the manager; so who really fires you? HR could have always vetoed after all, or anyone else further up the management chain. Seems like it'd be very tough to prove that a single direct manager was unilaterally responsible for damages.
Anyway, this is why most medium-and-larger organizations now have documented processes with PIPs and such. As long as there's a paper trail, you as an employee don't have much of a chance of winning a lawsuit, even if you feel like you were fired due to your manager being an asshole.