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Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by TimTheTinker on Sunday April 16, 2023 @09:04PM (#35595680)
> in the name of equity

That's the problem. We're dealing with the critical theory definition of equity, which they define as the intentional redistribution of opportunity and resources along identity group lines to correct for present and historical injustices, as well as opportunities those groups have already had.

Critical theory and social justice adopts a distorted view of reality. Leave it to a school in San Francisco to show everyone what happens in real life when administrators adopt a policy based on that distorted view of reality -- inequality is only increased.

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by vnchr on Sunday April 16, 2023 @09:27PM (#35595827)
Inequality is increased because those without resources aren’t receiving any new benefits and those with resources use those resources to compensate for the failure of the system to provide an education optimal path. It’s worse outcomes for both, except some people can shield themselves from the fallout. What new kind of self-inflicted damage will be required to realize the detrimental failure of this world view?
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by User23 on Sunday April 16, 2023 @09:44PM (#35595966)
Where do the resources come from?

Also, among those who aren’t willfully ignorant, it’s well known that increasing resources increases inequality. The classic example is height: when resources are low everyone is short. But when resources are plentiful then those with the genes for height tower above those without.

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by chii on Sunday April 16, 2023 @10:31PM (#35596250)
> But when resources are plentiful then those with the genes for height tower above those without.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Those who were short didn't fare worse in absolute terms. They only look worse off by comparison.

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by telotortium on Monday April 17, 2023 @01:01AM (#35597011)
That's exactly analogous to SF not offering algebra (for the students without the means to take extracurricular classes, which are disproportionately Black and Hispanic) - none of them get algebra, so they're all worse off in math in the future. With algebra offered, Black and Hispanic students may be less successful on average at algebra than other groups, but at least Black and Hispanic students that can handle algebra get a chance for better math education.
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by TimTheTinker on Monday April 17, 2023 @01:14AM (#35597076)
The gist of it is, there needs to be great opportunities offered without prejudice.
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by MrJohz on Monday April 17, 2023 @01:54AM (#35597245)
In fairness, the issues surrounding height inequality tend to be more about relative height than absolute height. So sure, shorter people can still reach the same physical heights, absolutely speaking, but they are now being judged against a broader spectrum of heights relatively speaking. Which means that they're less likely to succeed at job interviews or in relationships, and therefore end up absolutely worse off than before.

Essentially, if something is a zero-sum game (e.g. there are only so many jobs around, if you get a job someone else won't), then even if someone isn't doing worse absolutely, they can still do worse overall relatively speaking.

Which isn't to say that we should be giving short people stilts and cutting the legs off tall people, but it's worth recognising that these topics are complex, and even if we're only talking about absolute benefits, people can still lose out relatively speaking.

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by ertian on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:26AM (#35598465)
So you figure people should give even more resources, and their children's futures, over to these people who actively hate them and just hope things will work out, despite all evidence to the contrary?

My obligation is to my children. I'm happy to entrust them to a system if I have faith in it, or the people running it. If I don't...it would be downright irresponsible.

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by firstlink on Monday April 17, 2023 @09:32AM (#35600436)
Well you see we just haven't tried real socialism yet. The wealthy should not be allowed to give any kind of private education including tutors to their kids. And they shouldn't be allowed to interact with their kids at all because that too causes inequity. State boarding schools all around. Then we will achieve a classless society.
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by TimTheTinker on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:24AM (#35601175)
Exactly, that's where this line of reasoning goes.

In reality, the political leaders in charge of this societal reordering will themselves become the next upper class, and you can bet with certainty they'll give their own kids the best education and opportunities they can (which will be better than what they offer the masses).

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by elzbardico on Sunday April 16, 2023 @09:38PM (#35595913)
It must suck to be poor but not belong to any one the correct identity groups nowadays. I am lucky I was born way before that, or I would never would have be able to leave poverty.
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by chadcmulligan on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:14AM (#35597340)
Maybe the trick is to remove poverty, it's not hard to do
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by ertian on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:27AM (#35598475)
Sarcasm?
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by chadcmulligan on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:42AM (#35598570)
No, not at all, take 10% of the military budget, up the tax right for the high earners and make a better world. Imagine a place where no one had to be scared of living on the street, could get decent food, has access to free education and health care. What a wonderful world. It's totally within our capabilities and no one need suffer. Now I'm not saying it will be a great life but a basic life, it's been proved over and over that the limiting factor for a number of minorities is poverty, so unless you address that first nothing will be solved. Sure some people will abuse it, but think of the kids that will be able to get an education and eat properly, and its just easy.
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by TimTheTinker on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:33AM (#35601334)
> What a wonderful world. It's totally within our capabilities and no one need suffer.

I get really scared when I hear anyone promise utopia. Literally every large-scale society that did turned into a hellscape after a while, and the idea itself never worked.

There was always someone who didn't buy into the idea, and they were blamed for why it didn't work. "If only those people were gone, then this would work and we'd be happy."

So millions die or are sent to the gulag or whatever it's called, and the idea is still not working.

China no longer promises its citizens a utopia. All they promise is a country that is powerful on the world stage. They're getting there, but it's still happening via exploitation. And the back alleys of Beijing still ring with abject poverty.

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by chadcmulligan on Monday April 17, 2023 @07:57PM (#35608246)
Interesting, China has managed to lift a large proportion of its citizens in a very short time. I wasn't suggesting a Utopia, merely raising the bar so the minimum level is better than it is now, surely that should be the goal of every advanced country. The current levels of poverty are negatively influencing the next generation.
Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by TimTheTinker on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:29PM (#35608499)
> China has managed to lift a large proportion of its citizens in a very short time

You're conveniently ignoring the cultural revolution, which causes an ideological purity spiral resulting in millions dead.

China only began to prosper when they relaxed their economic policies and began to allow property/business ownership and international trade (especially with the West) back in.

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by ertian on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:46PM (#35622138)
Poverty is not eliminated in China, at all. The fact that they lifted a lot of people out of poverty doesn't necessarily mean they can lift all people out of poverty. Nobody else has achieved that. It's not as easy as you make out.

Also: the way they lifted all those people out of poverty was basically by freeing them to lift themselves out of poverty, by adopting an essentially capitalist system. You could say: they simply stopped holding people in poverty.

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by dh2022 on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:47PM (#35604816)
" Imagine a place where no one had to be scared of living on the street, could get decent food, has access to free education and health care. What a wonderful world. "

This wonderful world already exists in the US. Poor people have access to Medicaid / Emergency Rooms. The debate about food insecurity is whether or not poor people can afford fresh vegetables (because living on rice, cheap meats and canned peas/beans is not nutritious enough). About living in the street - if you are living on the street when you can get a job as a limo driver for $30 / hour just by walking in then maybe is your fault???

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by chadcmulligan on Monday April 17, 2023 @07:59PM (#35608255)
> if you are living on the street when you can get a job as a limo driver for $30 / hour just by walking in then maybe is your fault???

Wow, this is a joke isn't it?

Re:'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco by Der_Einzige on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:23AM (#35601155)
People will willingly claim that critical theory is not connected to Marxism. We call these people wrong.

Marx is literally the godfather of critical theory, the Frankfurt school, post strcturalism and the rest of the fashionable nonsense cannon that parts of the left seem obsessed with.