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Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by sourcecodeplz on Friday April 14, 2023 @03:59AM (#35566752)
> illegal bribes

Are there also legal bribes?

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by oxfordmale on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:05AM (#35566789)
Yes, legal bribes are how most of the Anglo-Saxon world works. For example, if I want certain favours from the current UK government, I can give a friend of mine an interest-free loan for him to donate significant sums of money to the current ruling party (Tories). You get away with this as long as there is no written record and just a discussion on the golf club. Not surprisingly, the government may then award you lucrative contracts or change the law in subtle ways that are in your favour.

Of course, the friend in question will then get endorsed for a lucrative position, a cushy consultancy job or a non-executive board membership.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by smcl on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:16AM (#35566860)
I think that would still be illegal but just very hard to prove and prosecute.
Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by oxfordmale on Friday April 14, 2023 @09:52AM (#35569577)
Illegal means it is beyond reasonable doubt that there has been a violation of the law. People do not get thrown in jail for donating money to political parties.

Suggesting ideas to political parties is also not illegal.

It is only illegal if the money is donated for the sole purpose of influencing a particular decision.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by smcl on Friday April 14, 2023 @10:39AM (#35570045)
Ahhhh yes - deconstructing a crime into smaller parts that you pretend are disconnected or entirely innocent - "I didn't kill him, I simply tightened my grip on a small lever that happened to be attached to a gun pointed in his direction" or "I wasn't smuggling, I simply crossed an imaginary line with a bunch of plants".

You're free to try this if you want I guess but please know that courts are well aware of this strategy and will immediately see through you. Unless your argument is that things aren't illegal unless you're caught which is also rather dicey, but again go right ahead, ymmv.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by rob74 on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:20AM (#35566899)
Those aren't legal either, unless you go by the motto "you are only guilty if you get caught"...
Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by oxfordmale on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:33AM (#35566980)

   * A friend asks me to borrow $400K. He is a good friend, and I am happy to help him out
   * A few months later, he decides to donate $200K to a political party that happens to be in power at the time
   * The government makes certain decisions that appear to be in my favour. I discussed that certain changes would be helpful but never asked for them directly.
Basically, it is a gentleman's agreement where no party involved explicitly asked for anything. Illegal in the spirit of the law, yes,provable in court beyond a reasonable doubt, no.

As another poster highlighted, you don't even need to use a friend in the UK, you can donate directly. The price of a seat in the House of Lords is £400,000 ($500K), but you can get other political favours much cheaper.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by shapefrog on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:44AM (#35567069)
> The price of a seat in the House of Lords is £400,000

The price to buy a seat from Boris was nearly an order of magnitude cheaper - but he also sold a lot of seats that he can not fulfill.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by shapefrog on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:32AM (#35566977)
> I want certain favours from the current UK government, I can give a friend of mine an interest-free loan for him to donate significant sums of money to the current ruling party (Tories). You get away with this as long as there is no written record

Having seen this in action (UK, Tory government) ... you are taking too many steps and too much complication. You donate publicly, on the register, to the party, candidates, (leadership candidates) etc. They give you things you ask for. The entire "scheme" is far more transparent than you think. It is also much cheaper than you think.

The expensive path is to literally hire a sitting member of parliament to your company and then you also get things you ask for.

The system works(/worked) extremely well because the people involved had some class and would only ask and take within reason.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by postingawayonhn on Friday April 14, 2023 @08:13AM (#35568609)
> You get away with this as long as there is no written record and just a discussion on the golf club.

That's not legal then. There's just a lack of evidence to bring a successful prosecution.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by tialaramex on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:22AM (#35566907)
A less facetious answer: Yes.

Anti-bribery laws authorise the use of bribes under narrow circumstances:

Particularly if the bribe seems to be necessary for safety of life (e.g. although you can clearly see the hospital has empty beds and equipment, the nursing staff assure you that your employee can't be helped and must just die here in the waiting room, sure enough once they have been bribed suitably the employee is given a bed and treatment begins). The bribe must be properly reported, both as a business expense and specifically as a bribe paid.

It is also certainly true that countries with global anti-bribery laws (including the US and UK) definitely don't actually enforce those laws when it comes to arms sales or other government authorised activity that frequently involves corrupt foreign governments. But that's just an ordinary example of "Do as I say, not as I do".

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by nixass on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:09AM (#35566820)
> illegal bribes

>> Are there also legal bribes?

Yes, lobbying. Legal bribery.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by shmerl on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:18AM (#35566879)
Citizens United case legalized bribes in the form of political campaign contributions.
Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by Dalewyn on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:47AM (#35567081)
Unlike the other responses, I will provide a more mundane example that's hopefully more relatable: Giving your mailman or deliveryman a can of coke/pepsi as a token of appreciation.

Next time, they're going to be more careful and timely handling your package, and you'll keep asking if they want a drink. It's unfair, because you will get special treatment compared to those who don't, but we're all human and everyone's happier. This is legal bribery.

Re:Microsoft is using illegal bribes in the Middle East and ... by seymore_12 on Friday April 14, 2023 @10:24AM (#35569901)
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54922374 from the article "As of 1996, about half of the countries in the OECD allowed companies to deduct bribes paid to foreign officials from their taxes, including Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand and Switzerland. They argued that such practices were routine business expenses in some countries."

one more: https://www.reuters.com/article/swiss-bribes-idUSL8N2HX5BV