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Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by s1artibartfast on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:13PM (#35497138)
I think the interesting question regarding these events is if these are victimless crimes or not.

That is to say, is there a license holder for that frequency that is being disrupted or not?

For commons that are not being used, and are not damaged, I think the think reasonable use should be allowed.

Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by jacquesm on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:15PM (#35497159)
The FM band is pretty crowded in most places, and there are a bunch of very important frequency bands right next to it and on multiples of those frequencies so if it wasn't designed very carefully there is a good chance of interference with something that matters. And people operating something that matters tend to have a hotline to the FCC for such cases. I'm surprised they issued a 'warning' rather than that they just took it down and confiscated the gear.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by lax4ever on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:16PM (#35497166)
It certainly poses an interesting question. In the context of this article I ran a quick search for any registered stations in the Portland area using 90.5 FM and I didn't find anything. Not saying that there isn't, but nothing I could find quickly.

Also, I don't know many pirate stations that would broadcast solely for the purpose of disrupting another station. My understanding was that most pirate broadcasters do so in order to send their own message, and so finding open signal space would seem to be key.

Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by RF_Enthusiast on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:28PM (#35497293)
This station was interfering with KBOO on 90.7 and a licensed low power FM on 90.3. The shoulders of the analog signal on 90.5 overlap the signals on 90.3 and 90.7.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by pstuart on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:51PM (#35497496)
Is this interference avoidable if using the right gear correctly?
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by RF_Enthusiast on Saturday April 08, 2023 @05:37PM (#35497883)
No, the analog signals would overlap.

In this case, KBOO on 90.7 is running HD format, which puts the lower digital shoulder at 90.5 MHz. So this station was operating on top of KBOO, compromising the KBOO signal. 90.5 - 90.6 MHz contained two signals, although the pirate operator didn't know that, as the digital hash sounds like static to the untrained ear.

Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by Ekaros on Saturday April 08, 2023 @05:11PM (#35497677)
200 kHz isn't that much. One can easily observe the effect by slightly tuning off radio and still hearing something.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by colinsane on Saturday April 08, 2023 @06:28PM (#35498268)
isn’t this the usual spacing of these bands: 200 kHz apart? like 101.3, 101.5, 101.7 were all distinct stations growing up IIRC.

does KBOO have a right to 90.5 being unoccupied? e.g. did they purchase double the spectrum as those higher-frequency stations?

Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by RF_Enthusiast on Saturday April 08, 2023 @07:41PM (#35498722)
KBOO's signal, centered at 90.7, starts at 90.5 MHz. The edge of the digital HD signal touches 90.500 MHz. By a pirate operating on 90.5, half of the pirate analog signal is directly over the KBOO signal.

KBOO did not purchase spectrum as they are a noncommercial station, and those stations are not subject to application or regulatory fees. KBOO has the same rights to the 200 kHz for analog and the additional digital bandwidth on either side, as any licensed FM station in the US has (expect for perhaps some FM translators).

As for analog vs. analog on adjacent frequencies, they interfere with each other, because there's a little bit of overlap. Analog signals don't have that "cliff" that the band edge that digital signals have. Analog FM can fit right next to digital, because the digital signal stops right at the edge. But the little bit of overlap of a 101.3 signal onto 101.5 is doubled when you consider the little bit of overlap from 101.5 to 101.3. It's significant interference on a receiver.

If you look at the lineup of licensed stations in any one location, you'll notice that stations are spaced by at least one vacant channel. For example, in most cities you'll see an alignment like this: 101.3 (full power), 101.7 (low power or distant), 102.1 (full power), 102.5 (low power or distant).

A full power station can't be in the same vicinity as another full power station for 3 adjacent channels. That is probably overkill, as it's made with consideration for receivers made decades ago that are no longer in use.

Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by Johnythree on Sunday April 09, 2023 @02:01AM (#35500387)
> did they purchase double the spectrum as those higher-frequency stations?

Pretty much, yes. There are always guard bands allocated, plus careful calculations to avoid harmonics, intermodulation products, images, etc, which could interfere with other services.

Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by RF_Enthusiast on Sunday April 09, 2023 @05:24PM (#35506623)
KBOO didn't purchase any spectrum, let alone double spectrum. They're a noncommercial station, which means they're not subject to application or regulatory fees.

They have the rights to what every station on the FM dial has, except possibly FM translators/repeaters: 200 kHz analog signal centered on 90.7, and 100 kHz on each side of that for the HD signal, for a total of 400 kHz. So their signal starts at 90.50 MHz and ends at 90.90 MHz. The 90.5 MHz pirate was operating on top of the licensed 90.7 signal.

(I should note that you're correct about the guard bands with calculations to avoid harmonics, intermodulation products, images, etc)

Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by pugworthy on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:24PM (#35499809)
Not that it's a critical decision point, but KBOO is rather old and well known in some circles. They aren't powerful but they are respected. When the favorite neighborhood watering hole is disrupted, people may speak up.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by RF_Enthusiast on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:52PM (#35499934)
Yeah, good point. Those people may have complained directly to the FCC, or a donor may have mentioned to KBOO that they can no longer get the station. Action may have originated on the listener level with a station as loved as KBOO.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by jacquesm on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:16PM (#35497171)
Check the harmonics too.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by alwaysbeconsing on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:29PM (#35497298)
There appear to be licensed stations at 90.3 and 90.7, which is close enough to be a problem.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by Johnythree on Sunday April 09, 2023 @01:55AM (#35500362)
That's not how it works: It's not just stations on the same frequency.

There a rather complex set of calculations which avoid interference to adjacent stations, plus interference to other services via harmonics, intermodulation products, images etc.

Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by temp12192021 on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:16PM (#35497168)
Wonder if - lacking an order top stop from the FCC - I could occupy a frequency and ultimately claim squatters rights or adverse posession on the frequency if someone eventually licenses it.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by technothrasher on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:26PM (#35497268)
Adverse possession traces its roots back to the Homestead Act of 1862. I'm not sure how exactly you'd claim you were making a residence out of a radio frequency.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by kragen on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:43PM (#35497412)
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by Spooky23 on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:30PM (#35497311)
No. The airwaves belong to the public, as licensed by the FCC. You don’t have any squatters rights to the airwaves.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by s1artibartfast on Saturday April 08, 2023 @05:24PM (#35497782)
I'm not talking about durable squatters right. More akin swimming in the ocean or hiking a cross a field
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by Spooky23 on Saturday April 08, 2023 @08:50PM (#35499131)
The FCC hasn’t historically supported that. One of the early FM pioneers was ruined when Sarnoff lobbied to allocate his frequencies for another purpose, for example.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by jacquesm on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:21PM (#35497217)
The spectrum is pretty much regulated all the way up to microwave bands and beyond.
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by shagie on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:31PM (#35497320)
You can get a poster of the radio spectrum for a very reasonable price (shipping included!) at https://bookstore.gpo.gov/products/united-states-frequency-a... (it's currently backordered).
Re:FCC Warns Portland Church to Shut Down Pirate FM Operatin... by swayvil on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:20PM (#35497207)
According to conventional wisdom, mandate derives purely from consensus. No justification or empirical validation necessary.