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Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by varispeed on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:23PM (#35461891)
Most people don't want to try and make things, so they are unaware how incredibly f we are.

Like I have little project and needed an enclosure made to order. Nothing fancy. Tried three rather known Western vendors and none could manufacture it to an acceptable standard. It was also very expensive and customer service seemed annoyed that I even want to order anything. I lost a lot of money on this, simply because I didn't want to support China.

Unfortunately had to hold my nose and go with Chinese. It's a night and day difference. Customer service was helpful and guided me through everything - and the quality. Damn. All dimensions exactly on point, no gaps, no off angles, no chipped paint, just perfect. The price was very similar to what I paid to more expensive Western company, but the value for money - no comparison.

It's even worse with PCBs. There is one company in Europe that I could recommend, but they are rather expensive and I wouldn't use it for larger quantity - the cost of the end product would mean you wouldn't be able to compete.

So it's China again. Amazing customer service, advanced options, short lead times.

We are so f.

Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by jacquesm on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:43PM (#35462079)
Indeed. But thank you for trying!
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by cpursley on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:53PM (#35462164)
Agree! I just ordered a custom made guitar ("NK headless guitars" on aliexpress for those who are interested). While's there's a bit of a language barrier, there's no way I could get close to the level of customer support and quality for the price ($500). You can't even start a conversation with a US/EU company for less than $2000k USD for a custom guitar build. This Chinese company started off cloning a well known brand (Strandburg) but eventually came up with their own very unique design. And not only that, they can customize things unlike the big brand.

I just don't get the anti-China hate. Is it racism?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1101096166?spm=a2g0o.detail...

Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by kemiller on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:14PM (#35462373)
Not anti-China, anti-CCP. China has an amazing culture with deep history and they have shown themselves to be astounding competent. But autocratic systems are self-defeating. When leadership is sound, it seems like a great idea. But because power is absolute it just takes one wrong turn to wreck everything, which is what is happening now. Under Hu, Chinas ascendancy seemed inevitable. Not anymore.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by seanmcdirmid on Thursday April 06, 2023 @01:29AM (#35464501)
Hu Jintao was a pretty weak leader who satisfied neither traditionalists nor reformers. He opened up China for the Olympics than snapped it shut. Say what you want about Xi, but he is seen as a strong leader at least.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by jacquesm on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:14PM (#35462366)
> I just don't get the anti-China hate. Is it racism?

It is 100% possible to see China as a long term economic (and possibly military but I doubt that) threat, abhor their human rights violations, love Chinese people and despise the CCP all in one go.

Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by augment001 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @10:24PM (#35463355)
So true. Even the CCP wasn’t so clearly problematic until Xi.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by htag on Thursday April 06, 2023 @01:00AM (#35464317)
The CCP has been clearly problematic since Mao.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by augment001 on Thursday April 06, 2023 @01:38AM (#35464558)
It seemed to be getting better between Deng Xiaoping and Hu Jintao. Obviously not great, but it took a much darker turn with Xi.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by type0 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:15PM (#35462384)
> I just don't get the anti-China hate. Is it racism?

There are plenty of reasons for anti-China sentiments, some don't like to deal with China because of animal rights abuses, others because of mistreatments of the Uyghurs, what the CCP did to Hong Kong etc. I would rather buy the same item when it says Made in Vietnam/India/Thailand over the one that's made in China, and that's not because of bad craftsmanship or racism.

Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by cpursley on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:28PM (#35462483)
Isn't Vietnam openly (C|c)ommunist and Thailand authoritarian?
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by herbst on Thursday April 06, 2023 @03:06AM (#35465169)
I never see people hating on Switzerland even thought it's effectively legal to eats cats and dogs in some places (and horses for my us readers) and its beeing done. One meal even named 'meow meow'

Yet I never hear people cancel Switzerland for animal right abuse

Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by fbdab103 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @09:01PM (#35462712)
Well, Strandburg probably has some thoughts on why they dislike China.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by cpursley on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @09:06PM (#35462745)
This builder creates their own unique design. And Strandburg used to open source their designs: https://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/3lb8pm/strandbe...
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by fbdab103 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @09:14PM (#35462814)
That reddit link reaches out to a page [0] that puts the license as CC BY-NC-SA 3.0, meaning non-commercial. Looking at the updated strandberg site[1] and some Ali clones, they look identical[2]. Maybe there are tweaks to the design, but it sure looks like the IP has been lifted entirely.

[0] https://guitarworks.thestrandbergs.com/

[1] https://strandbergguitars.com/

[2] https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-headless-guitar.html

Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by cpursley on Thursday April 06, 2023 @06:39AM (#35466574)
The only similarity is that they are headless. The NKs are a pretty different body carve now.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by porknubbins on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @09:25PM (#35462889)
Doing business with Chinese counterparties you have to worry they will renege on contracts if the market goes too far against them and you will have no recourse. Sometimes you get great value like your custom guitar, sometimes you get screwed. It pays to be a little cynical when doing business with Chinese companies has such a variance.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by chii on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:10PM (#35462328)
How do these non-chinese companies survive if their production is so bad, customer service so poor, and price is so high? Who are their current customers that are paying for their services?
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by troyvit on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @09:25PM (#35462895)
US government contracts? (I'm joking ... I think)
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by varispeed on Thursday April 06, 2023 @05:03AM (#35465991)
I guess government, military, scientific organisations are the customers, where they want to keep their IP within the country.
Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by serf on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:16PM (#35462391)
>So it's China again. Amazing customer service, advanced options, short lead times.

This falls apart quickly when you come up with a product that would profit others through mimicry.

Those local manufacturers suddenly become a lot less expensive when you're cruising through Alibaba and you see the product you designed for sale in multiple colors at 2/3rds the cost you could have ever hoped to sell them for, through multiple vendors.

tl;dr : I could tell my story, I could tell my dad's story from 30 years prior, but here's the moral instead : taking IP overseas -- especially should that IP require special tooling that gets shipped around -- is crummy for a lot of reasons that may or may not come back to bite you.

Local manufacturing does have advantages, even if they may not apply to your specific needs.

Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by jacquesm on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:18PM (#35462408)
> Those local manufacturers suddenly become a lot less expensive when you're cruising through Alibaba and you see the product you designed for sale in multiple colors at 2/3rds the cost you could have ever hoped to sell them for, through multiple vendors.

No need to look far, two comments removed from yours is this one:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35462164

Re:China Plans to Ban Exports of Rare Earth Magnet Tech by varispeed on Thursday April 06, 2023 @08:13AM (#35467269)
There are trade offs of course. But from mechanical point of view, my project is simple enough that I am sure someone determined could just recreate it in CAD in a couple of days anyway and send to manufacturer of their own.

I think if product can be copied easily, then it will be copied. It's just a fact of life.

What can't be (easily) copied is the firmware. Someone determined could still do clean room implementation anyway.

The more complex and innovative your project is, the more time you can sell it for premium until someone copies it.

On one hand this is good, because it forces people to innovate on the other hand it makes projects less profitable in the long run.

That being said if you have your marketing and price right, your target audience is unlikely going to choose a cheap copy and those who do probably wouldn't be your customers anyway.