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Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by Skyy93 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:29PM (#35461312)
Currently the only impact Bitcoin had is burning a large amount of electricity. I would not say this is a particular worthy technology to safe. There would be far better ideas like Transformers in AI or 5nm chip technology.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by neilv on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:30PM (#35461326)
And facilitating organized crime, terrorism, and investment scams.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by overthrow on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:43PM (#35461481)
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3942181

> For example, illegal transactions, scams and gambling together make up less than 3% of volume.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by VWWHFSfQ on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:52PM (#35461576)
the other 97% is bots sending small amounts of bitcoins back and forth to each other for no reason whatsoever
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by trogdor on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:06PM (#35461716)
In fairness, that kind of thing arguably happens with stocks as well, though algorithmic trading.

Though it’s not small amounts.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by eru on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @10:25PM (#35463364)
Though they do have reasons. But the 'bots' in Bitcoin probably have too. After all, there are transaction costs.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by Psychoshy_bc1q on Thursday April 06, 2023 @02:15AM (#35464802)
back this claim up.

wait you can't

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by codehalo on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:35PM (#35461383)
And human trafficking.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by it_citizen on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:42PM (#35461469)
And funding North Korea.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by colestantiago on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:44PM (#35461485)
don't forget ransomware enablement and burning the planet up with mining.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by midmagico on Monday April 10, 2023 @12:17AM (#35509131)
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by Zuiii on Sunday April 09, 2023 @10:44AM (#35503177)
Yeah, I wish cryptocurrencies haven't been invented so that human trafficking wouldn't exist at all.

I mean just think about it. A FULL 3%* of all cryptocurrency transactions are related to criminal activities! If we ban those 3% (and the other 97% because why not), we will stop all human trafficking or at least make a noticeable dent in it because most traffickers rely on cryptocurrency and absolutely don't use traditional currency as the main way to transact.

Perhaps if cryptocurrencies do finally get banned, it would at least help certain individuals to think more critically, or perhaps start thinking at all. One can only wish.

[*]: 3% because it's the most extreme reputable statistic out there. Most reputable studies place transactions related to illicit activities well bellow 1%.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by dingosity on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:39PM (#35461431)
Careful. You're going to be accused of furthering an "ideological debate" in violation of HN's Terms of Service.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by RestlessMind on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:48PM (#35461531)
And also to fight oppressive governments. Compiled some examples here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32406095

Though those governments would love people like you who paint all the use cases as "organized crime, terrorism" etc

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by igsomething on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:18PM (#35461837)
Add countries with hyperinflation too such as Venezuela and Argentina.

Every cryptocurrency-related post here in HN is flooded with extremely negative comments, even if the post itself does not promote cryptocurrencies. These people have seen countless examples of cryptocurrency scams, but they cannot understand what life under an economically oppressed or unstable country is because they never experienced it.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by Zuiii on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:25PM (#35463778)
I'd also add:

- People living abroad who are completely debanked because local banks refuse to open banks accounts for people who are merely suspected of being US citizns, despite them not being US citizns, with no path to resolve their predicament. This is a real problem that is effecting real people right now.

- Any legal activity that the banks and payment processors don't like for one reason or another; onlyfans, "right-wing" websites (whether actual or merely alleged), ...etc.

We no longer live in a world where you can live a dignified life with cash alone. Cryptocurrecy is a net positive to humanity, even if the technologies behind it may currently be more wasteful and make the lives of criminals a bit easier. There is simply no alternative for a lot of honest people in financial dead-ends the government can't or won't help.

Thank you Satoshi and anyone who works to support this technology for making the world a slightly better place.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by Psychoshy_bc1q on Thursday April 06, 2023 @02:14AM (#35464792)
HN is flooded with overprivileged richkids with no connection to reality
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by hnbad on Thursday April 06, 2023 @08:57AM (#35467743)
I mean yeah but that describes a vast amount of cryptobros (or at least the more successful ones rather than the ones left holding the bag).
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by RestlessMind on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:03AM (#35493871)
But vast amount cryptobros being idiots doesn't make crypto itself useless. Similar to how there are a vast amount of AI/GPT-bros who are going to annoy us for the next few years, while AI itself is still very cool and beneficial.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by throwaway290 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:48PM (#35462625)
And also to support oppressive governments by helping work around sanctions?
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by infamouscow on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @10:30PM (#35463388)
You sound propagandized by your government.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how informed do you believe you are to be making these statements and what makes you so convinced working around sanctions is bad? Have you spoken to anyone in the countries negatively impacted by your government's sanctions?

Do you understand the humanitarian disasters and suffering caused by your sanctions and why someone might circumvent them, or are you just a marionette for ultra wealthy bankers and CEOs?

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by throwaway290 on Thursday April 06, 2023 @12:30AM (#35464141)
Any way around sanctions that helps me send money to my family in Russia is a way that is exploited by the dictator orders of magnitude more, maintaining the situation where my relatives need financial help in the first place (to say nothing about undermining world peace etc). Yes it is unfortunate.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by midmagico on Monday April 10, 2023 @12:15AM (#35509121)
It does not have the kind of liquidity, nor anonymity, which could be successfully used at any significant scale whatsoever, and there's no point to it given the USD is a convenient, anonymous, trivially falsifiable source of funds which are fully launderable.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by brabel on Thursday April 06, 2023 @06:31AM (#35466520)
From your linked article on Russian opposition:

"We use bitcoin because it’s a good legal means of payment. The fact that we have bitcoin payments as an alternative helps to defend us from the Russian authorities. They see if they close down other more traditional channels, we will still have bitcoin. It’s like insurance."

They even use Paypal and card transfers for donations... Bitcoin is just another payment they accept in the hope it will be hard for the government to block funds... but they don't say it anywhere that's been the only way, or the best way to do that, it's just one of the ways they're looking and so far has not been shown to be more government-resilient as I am sure getting the money out from the blockchain is not going to be easy if the Government doesn't like the idea... you make it look like Bitcoin is their saviour or something which is a gross misrepresentation.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by RestlessMind on Friday April 07, 2023 @11:11PM (#35490114)
> but they don't say it anywhere that's been the only way

Sure but if it wasn't significant, they wouldn't have mentioned it.

> so far has not been shown to be more government-resilient as I am sure getting the money out from the blockchain is not going to be easy if the Government doesn't like the idea

It seems you have no idea how bitcoin works then. All you have to do is memorize 12 words. You can then take your wealth to many corners of the world, some of which will be free from the tyranny of your government and still have an ecosystem which will let you cash out your bitcoin for the local currency. A good example - Dubai, where a lot of real estate is being purchased in crypto by the Russians fleeing the war.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by charlieyu1 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:33PM (#35462000)
Which of these do not happen when using conventional money?
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by lottin on Thursday April 06, 2023 @12:33AM (#35464164)
You're missing the point. Cryptocurrencies are specifically designed to evade regulations. Everything else —efficiency, cost, convenience, usability— is sacrificed in order to achieve this goal.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by charlieyu1 on Thursday April 06, 2023 @05:31AM (#35466172)
Call me old school but I don’t understand the hype about regulations. The less power the government has, the better. They certainly don’t need to know my spending habits. And a stack of banknotes evade regulations pretty well anyway.
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by hnbad on Thursday April 06, 2023 @09:15AM (#35467919)
The function of the state is to enforce private property rights. Regulations exist to alleviate the consequences of private property rights by adding various forms of exceptions. Whether you think that's a good thing depends on whether your idea of utopia is a egalitarian commune or a neofeudal federation of corporate city states.

Note that I'm talking about private property not personal property. Variations of the latter exist and have existed in almost every society but the concept of the former has increasingly been maximized to the point that patches of land, ways to do things, ideas in your head and sincere promises are now things you can own and exchange and people refusing to suffer hunger or lack of shelter are seen as unreasonable if they want to use what isn't eaten or isn't lived in.

Abolishing the state as long as other organizations (or individuals) are allowed to hoard resources/wealth/power seems as catastrophic a suggestion as abolishing the police as long as other gangs exist. You're just substituting one evil for another without affecting any material change.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by Zuiii on Sunday April 09, 2023 @10:29AM (#35503034)
> Cryptocurrencies are specifically designed to evade regulations.

No, most are not. (I'd go as far to argue that even monero is not specifically designed to evade regulation.)

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by jeffhuys on Thursday April 06, 2023 @11:18AM (#35469502)
Eh, every good thing can be used for bad.

And it's a pandora's box anyways. So who cares.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by midmagico on Monday April 10, 2023 @12:13AM (#35509110)
Bitcoin specifically, even at the height of Silk Road, and at Bitcoin's nearly weakest-by-comparison point, has been and is cleaner by proportion when compared with virtually all countries' grey markets in terms of what proportion of its economy is used for crime.

The crime trope is ancient, old, and has been repeatedly debunked. The evidence for its prevalence simply isn't there—because Bitcoin is not anonymous.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by chclt on Thursday April 06, 2023 @01:06AM (#35464359)
Meh, being able to synchronise an append-only tamper proof linked list and control who gets to put what on it in a decentralized way is pretty cool. Not to mention it's far easier to implement with limited means, than 5nm chips, or large tansformer models.

(Also implementing money on it does seem pretty intelligent -- its a scarcity device -- peoble just seem to do stupid stuff with it)

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by ninkendo on Thursday April 06, 2023 @10:23AM (#35468669)
Git (and any merkle tree) already implements a tamper proof linked list, there’s no reason to burn electricity in a proof of work algorithm to accomplish this.

Controlling who gets to put things in it in a decentralized way isn’t as important as many people think, at the end of the day almost all applications (other than currency) can just use a central authority to publish hashes.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by midmagico on Monday April 10, 2023 @12:11AM (#35509095)
Pardon me while I git push -f..
Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by ninkendo on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @10:34AM (#35525746)
You should probably reread git’s documentation if you think git push -f rewrites any commits. It doesn’t. It makes new commits and re-assigns the named branch to track the new commits you just pushed. It rewrites branch names, not commits.

It is impossible (without finding a SHA collision) to rewrite a commit in git.

And before you say “yeah but how do you know which SHA sums are the right one if you don’t trust branch names”, please reread the final paragraph of the post you replied to.

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by chclt on Friday April 14, 2023 @05:48PM (#35575225)
> Git (and any merkle tree) already implements a tamper proof linked list, there’s no reason to burn electricity in a proof of work algorithm to accomplish this.

Thats why the word "and" is there in my sentence

Re:The Bitcoin whitepaper is hidden in every copy of macOS by yieldcrv on Thursday April 06, 2023 @03:37AM (#35465432)
okay, someone give me a cloud development platform where I can host anything and do arbitrary executions for

a) single one time cost.

b) no list of approved or unapproved uses

c) unlimited free read bandwidth

d) all my users pay to change the application

I've looked at AWS, GCP, Firebase, bare metal and none of their offerings have the same pricing structure of blockchain nodes. The target audience for non-blockchain applications require a much larger funnel and friction to pay for anything, while my overhead costs of getting them into the funnel soar. Free tiers are okay but can't handle a spike in traffic. Audiences in the blockchain space have already crossed all the friction and have an insatiable demand for 1-click payment funnels.

This perspective doesn't really seem to arise in these conversations. But perhaps there is a counterpoint that I missed about some other cloud platform? This is very high impact for me and I can see many developers continuing to bring their audiences to this development platform.