News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Day Windows Died by surgical_fire on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:53PM (#35416143)
I recently moved back to Linux, perhaps permanently.

What kept me from it was not being able to reliably play games, but I can confirm that is no longer a problem.

I can't properly describe how happy this makes me.

Re:The Day Windows Died by pedalpete on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:58PM (#35416208)
What distro did you go for? I'm thinking about moving to linux, I'm avoiding a Windows 11 upgrade, and am not a fan of mac.
Re:The Day Windows Died by neogodless on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:20PM (#35416444)
I ran Linux Mint on a Lenovo Legion gaming laptop for 2 months.

Almost everything related to gaming worked but I did have problems.

Under X11 + Gnome, fractional scaling was pretty badly broken for some things, especially the Steam app. X11 + KDE fixed that issue.

Under X11 + KDE with hybrid graphics mode (automatically use APU for light tasks, dedicated GPU for games), the laptop's brightness controls were totally inoperable. I tried to research this but could not find a working solution. If brightness was problematic enough, I could pick one of the fixed graphic modes and log out and back in - mostly I left it near or at 100% and didn't touch it.

One game (Anno 1800) would not connect to multiplayer, but works completely under Windows.

Hogwart's Legacy ran horribly and was unstable in Linux Mint. It ran with much higher quality/performance and 100% stability under Windows.

Other games like ARK, Conan, Valheim, StarCraft 2 (using non-Steam Proton), Deep Rock Galactic all ran identically (from what I can tell) to Windows.

Also about 50% of the time, booting would hang for Linux Mint and I'd have to hard-reboot, probably pick an older kernel to boot into, and then I could reboot and go back to the latest kernel (a minor release under Linux 5.15). Fortunately rebooting is mostly infrequent.

Overall it wasn't quite in a state I was comfortable with, so I'm back to Windows 10, which is much better than Windows 11 (or much less bad?).

Re:The Day Windows Died by esperent on Monday April 03, 2023 @02:13AM (#35419172)
> Hogwart's Legacy ran horribly and was unstable in Linux Mint. It ran with much higher quality/performance and 100% stability under Windows.

Do you think this is because it's new? If I could only play games with a year or two delay that would be fine. Cheaper too.

Re:The Day Windows Died by neogodless on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:41AM (#35422499)
I can only guess!

It's very rare for me to even buy a new game (unless it's a $20 early access game) but my spouse was very excited for it and I wanted to play alongside. (It's not multiplayer but we can still talk about the parts we've played.)

Re:The Day Windows Died by surgical_fire on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:59PM (#35416221)
Mint, because I'm a filthy casual :)

I just love Mint, but I think any Debian based distro should work just fine for playing.

Re:The Day Windows Died by acegopher on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:08PM (#35416295)
I started with Red Hat 5 bought in a box in 1998 from Microcenter, compiled my own kernel with the original Gentoo, ran XMonad under Arch, and need both hands to count the number of distros I've used as daily drivers.

I have settled on Linux Mint. It just works, and looks good.

From one "filthy casual" to another...

Re:The Day Windows Died by surgical_fire on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:12PM (#35416332)
Haha, good to know that my laziness is not looked down :P

I used Ubuntu for a while, but fell in love with Mint. I really like how the interface looks, and how things are organized very intuitively. It feels so unfair to use it for free thay I donated 20 bucks, just to show appreciation.

Honestly, easily beats Windows or Mac OS for me.

Re:The Day Windows Died by agiacalone on Sunday April 02, 2023 @08:57PM (#35417212)
I've used some form of *NIX since 1999, almost exclusively.

Began with Red Hat 5. Moved on to Slackware for my server at the time, and Debian for workstations (I also had various MacOS machines as well). Dabbled with Arch for a few years and Manjaro. Recently, I sold all of my Apple equipment and standardized on...Linux Mint.

Mint + Cinnamon DE is simply amazing and even with lower specs on the current laptop I'm running (Thinkpad T460S vs. Apple MBP 2019 i9), the difference is stark. Not to mention rock-solid stable.

No going back for me.

Re:The Day Windows Died by stavros on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:00PM (#35416228)
Basically whatever runs Steam, if you want to play games.
Re:The Day Windows Died by smcin on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:10PM (#35416317)
Sure, but Steam doesn't run natively, and is very heavy on battery and GPU. So it isn't good for playing on a laptop when mobile; signficantly worse to native game binary running on a tablet or laptop.
Re:The Day Windows Died by giobox on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:21PM (#35416448)
> Sure, but Steam doesn't run natively, and is very heavy on battery and GPU. So it isn't good for playing on a laptop when mobile

I'm assuming this statement is referring to the large amount of software that is Windows only on Steam and runs in a compatibility layer on Linux, rather than Steam itself.

This really isn't that big a deal vs "native" for Steam on Linux and it's getting even less so with time - the Steam Deck mobile console and other x86 handhelds use the exact same Proton tech to run Windows games under Linux on a pretty small ~40Wh battery.

Power consumption of the Proton compatibility layer isn't really any better or worse than running native in my experience - its a wash.

Re:The Day Windows Died by onli on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:21PM (#35416457)
Steam runs natively. It is a linux application (to my knowledge, and it wraps "a webview", so there might be some nuance here. But native enough for this distinction).

Steam uses a compatibility layer called Proton to run Windows games under Linux. Running the games that way is not significantly worse. It can get the same or even better performance (but sure, sometimes worse) and will affect battery life pretty much exactly as if running the game via Windows on the Laptop.

Proton is based on Wine, and Wine is not an emulator. Translating the calls does not make them heavier.

Re:The Day Windows Died by tetha on Monday April 03, 2023 @01:36AM (#35418947)
Functionality for older windows games is a little bit more absurd. I have a few games I kinda gave up on because they stopped working on windows 10, until I chucked them into proton or wine and suddenly those games were working. That was a confusing evening for a moment.
Re:The Day Windows Died by josephcsible on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:24PM (#35416484)
> Steam doesn't run natively

What do you mean by this?

Re:The Day Windows Died by stavros on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:13PM (#35416352)
If you're worried about battery life when gaming on the laptop as the decider between Linux and Windows, you should go with Windows.

Otherwise, Steam doesn't really emulate anything, it just reimplements Windows API calls, so games run roughly as efficiently as they do on Windows.

Re:The Day Windows Died by Mike_12345 on Monday April 03, 2023 @12:30AM (#35418571)
Not true. Some games perform better on Proton (less power consumption than native). Overall no difference in power consumption.
Re:The Day Windows Died by smcin on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:40AM (#35420806)
I was referring to "Steam games" not (obviously) "the Steam client".

a) Not all Steam games are on Proton [https://www.protondb.com/]

b) Not all Steam games that are on Proton run efficiently without tweaks e.g. one that I found unplayable due to overheats (on MacOS) was Sid Meier’s Civilization VI [https://www.protondb.com/app/289070]

c) Not all Steam games where you had the pre-Proton version installed, download the right version update. See Steam's forums, people saying disable Steamplay; and have to do that globally, not per-game.

d) In addition, I found the Steam updater daemon (interacting with MacOS Mojave Quarantine) also burned power like no tomorrow.

Re:The Day Windows Died by wrycoder on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:03PM (#35416264)
If you like simplicity, Alpine.
Re:The Day Windows Died by onli on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:33PM (#35416563)
Just not if gaming is the goal. Steam would be only available as a Flatpak, says https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Steam. And the Flatpak version is problematic.

Void would be a better choice if liking simplicity. Or to keep it simple, maybe Pop!_OS. Or Debian. Or Arch. Pretty much everything not Alpine ;)

Re:The Day Windows Died by wrycoder on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:00AM (#35422761)
I’ve used Alpine, Void, and Debian for years.

I certainly would never use Alpine for gaming, any more than I’d use OpenBSD. I don’t use it for multimedia, either.

My normal setup is i3 on Alpine. I like to think I have a good understanding of how an Alpine system is built up via its install scripts and maintained by its packaging system.

There’s not a lot of cruft lying around that I don’t need and didn’t request.

That’s what I intended by using the word “simplicity”.

Why would you think that Debian and Void are simpler systems than Alpine? They are much larger.

Re:The Day Windows Died by onli on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:15AM (#35423938)
They are much easier to use for gaming, as you can install Steam without any hurdles. Note how the grandparent comment of your response mentions that being able to game easily now was what made the switch to Linux possible.
Re:The Day Windows Died by wrycoder on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @10:02AM (#35454398)
I’m currently building a rather powerful W10 box solely to run MS Flight Simulator 2020.
Re:The Day Windows Died by FridayoLeary on Sunday April 02, 2023 @08:27PM (#35416986)
The issue with Linux for me is how crude and unpolished the desktop environment is compared to windows and Mac. For the average user the desktop is everything and Linux lag way behind on that. Why are there basically only 2 choices on Linux and both have the same boring font?
Re:The Day Windows Died by neogodless on Sunday April 02, 2023 @09:31PM (#35417457)
I assume when you say two choices you mean Gnome and KDE?

But there are other options like Xfce, and there are quite a few variants, like Cinnamon, MATE, i3, etc. [0]

I still think Windows 10 looks and feels relatively polished (if you don't dig too deep and see just how many iterations they've gone through and still haven't gone back to fix.) I think Windows 11 feels a bit goofy - like they are trying for polish now, but it's in that modern overly spaced out and flat look that I can't seem to appreciate.

I found Linux Mint Cinnamon to be quite nice, and KDE is really nice in my opinion. More consistent than Windows in some ways.

[0] https://alternativeto.net/software/gnome/

Re:The Day Windows Died by surgical_fire on Sunday April 02, 2023 @09:57PM (#35417626)
I much prefer the desktop environment of Mint + Cinnamon over Windows or Mac.

Ditto, I am not an average user, but Windows was only really good on Windows 7, and I never really liked Mac OS (use it at work as a MCB is the laptop they issued for me)

Re:The Day Windows Died by dysoco on Monday April 03, 2023 @12:50AM (#35418683)
Have you used Linux recently?

Windows 11 and Windows 10 with the last updates as well are just awful in terms of UI; the UX works more or less alright, but many of the default applications, and specially the settings, control panel, etc. are just an inconsistent mess, awful flat UI without any kind of colors, etc.

Mac is much nicer, nicer fonts, colors, overall look although personally I can't stand the UX too much (specially in terms of window management) apps are usually great tho.

I'd very much rather use something like Kubuntu or Pop_OS, Cinnamon works fine as well, honestly nowadays they just work and are usually better off than Windows by default.

Re:The Day Windows Died by deafpolygon on Monday April 03, 2023 @01:21AM (#35418856)
> the UX works more or less alright, but many of the default applications, and specially the settings, control panel, etc. are just an inconsistent mess, awful flat UI without any kind of colors, etc.

The whole GTK2/3, now 4? and KDE, Plasma, Kirigami, what have you nowadays, isn't an inconsistent mess? I was using Linux (fedora 37) recently and it was not a consistent experience, either.

If anything, W11 is more consistent across all applications even if the settings/control panel have a weird Jekyll/Hyde personality to it at times.

Re:The Day Windows Died by inciampati on Monday April 03, 2023 @02:08AM (#35419133)
What elements of polish are you missing?

Have you used gnome shell in the last five years?

My desktop experience on Linux is so clean. Everything is a "windows" key press away. I hit they then enter the first characters of the program name. It's all composited and GPU accelerated too, and interaction is instantaneous.

Almost anything that needs additional polish is on the web and looks the same on every computer...

For me, what seems janky is stuff with the systems on MacOS (planned hardware obsolescence = jank, batteries that die after a predetermined number of years, expanding until they break the motherboard = jank) or the user treatment and configuration of Windows (the article in question gives a lovely example of windows jank). In short, being treated like a consumer = jank. I can't understand how anyone puts up with it, much less says "polished" when referring to it. But I'll admit I'm weird!

Re:The Day Windows Died by pjmlp on Monday April 03, 2023 @02:58AM (#35419537)
Have you ever tried to develop GUI applications for GNOME versus macOS/Windows tooling?
Re:The Day Windows Died by wink on Monday April 03, 2023 @04:34AM (#35420321)
It's a bit of an exaggeration, but I've written the whole Linux application in the same time that I needed to get my build environment working on Windows. I still don't know how people can like developing on Windows, especially if it involves anything regarding C/C++ libs. (Not using a paid version of Visual Studio, fwiw).
Re:The Day Windows Died by pjmlp on Monday April 03, 2023 @04:56AM (#35420493)
The fact that you lack the experience with proper Windows development tooling kind of shows, it isn't an exageration, otherwise you would realize how stone age is anything Gtk+ related, specially after Glade was killed.
Re:The Day Windows Died by wink on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:19AM (#35422264)
I dunno, I've used Qt. You can argue that it's not "proper windows development tooling" and I can argue that 90% of apps I've written in my life have benefitted from being cross-platform. Happy to be corrected here, but I've seen most hobbyists not use Visual Studio because historically you had to pay for it in the first place, and it's only common between Windows-only devs, to no surprise.
Re:The Day Windows Died by pjmlp on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:01AM (#35423703)
Qt isn't GNOME either.

Visual Studio has had free express editions, before community was introduced, since 2010.

Even those express editions were more feature rich than GNOME tooling.

Re:The Day Windows Died by dagw on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:48AM (#35420864)
If you use the Visual Studio build system the way it's designed to be used and use vcpkg to manage your third party libraries, then C++ on Windows is pretty great, even when using the free version of Visual Studio.

Trying to force a UNIX shaped build environment and development setup into a Windows shaped hole on the other hand can be a pain.

Re:The Day Windows Died by guestbest on Monday April 03, 2023 @02:09AM (#35419147)
To me a desktop is mostly determined by what can be done with a file browser and the file browsers that come with a Linux distribution (dolphins, thunder, etc) are much better than finder or explorer.