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Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by analog31 on Friday March 31, 2023 @01:08AM (#35382844)
From what I read, the indictment is sealed. Does that mean we don't really know precisely what the charges are yet? I'm willing to wait and see.

Also, from everything I've read, well defended people are remarkably hard to convict. This is as it should be, as it may let some people go scot free, but protects the rest of us.

Convicting Trump will be hard. It might fail. Does this mean that charges should not be brought in the first place? That's a question I don't know how to answer, for any "white collar" or prominent defendant.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by brigandish on Friday March 31, 2023 @02:38AM (#35383484)
How does it protect the rest of us if "well defended people" means "those able to afford better lawyers"?
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by unixgoddess on Friday March 31, 2023 @03:31AM (#35383837)
same question here...
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by pseingatl on Friday March 31, 2023 @03:59AM (#35384040)
Because only the well-funded can establish precedent. At least until Dobson, precedent was generally applicable, respected by lower courts and enforced on police and prosecutors.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by berniedurfee on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:38AM (#35385518)
Interesting, but that being said, if the defense does prevail, the precedents that’ll be set will likely broaden the range of shady things that can be paid for during a political campaign. Probably not a good thing for average folks.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by brigandish on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:10PM (#35405621)
Precedent can be and is open to change - and should be in the case of bad precedent - and did you mean Dobbs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobbs_v._Jackson_Women%27s_Hea...

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by analog31 on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:42PM (#35396512)
Admittedly, I thought I was being concise, but edited my post into a real head-scratcher.

I was thinking along the lines of protections such as presumption of innocence, and burden of proof, as making it hard to convict people. But it does require competent defense to enforce those things.

An example of easy to convict is countries where prominent dissidents are arrested for nebulous "corruption," and basically stand no chance.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by brigandish on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:41PM (#35396880)
Ah, I see now. Good point.

I love common law but one aspect that seems inescapably (though perhaps not wholly) negative is the different levels of access to justice that come with different levels of wealth.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by BrandoElFollito on Friday March 31, 2023 @02:53AM (#35383592)
Since there is the concept of sealed indictment, why are all the indictments not sealed (or none of them)?

I guess this is to preserve the person that is accused (because an accusation is easier to make than to defend, given the visibility decided by the media, supporters, etc)) - do why some are more preserved then others?

Since the topic is a hot one, please note that I am from France and have no stakes nor interest in the political discussion, I am genuinely interested in that concept of this seal which we do not have AFAICT.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by Seam0nkey on Friday March 31, 2023 @03:23AM (#35383776)
Most indictments are never sealed (if the accused has been arrested on other charges, for example, there isn't much use in trying to keep it secret from the accused), and the ones that are always become unsealed in order to go to trial. There are a number of reasons to file an indictment under seal - ranging from juvenile records to managing flight risks of the accused.

The one that is probably most pertinent in this case has to do with testimony in front of a grand jury: both encouraging it to occur, and preventing it from being tampered with by the accused.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by BrandoElFollito on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:11AM (#35384445)
Ahhhh, the seal is there to keep the details secret for everyone, including the accused. OK, now I understand the reason behind this mechanism (especially that the indictments are unsealed when when going to trial).

Thank you for the precisions

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by mcculley on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:13AM (#35384454)
> I am from France and have no stakes nor interest in the political discussion

The impact of U.S. politics goes well beyond its borders.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by BrandoElFollito on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:20AM (#35384515)
Yes, but when reading the comments I see a lot of US political discussions about whether this is a problem or not, Whether D Trump is ok or not, etc. I am not interested in these and did not want my question about what a seal is to diverge on whether this is a good thing or not to seal (or not seal)
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dragonwriter on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:48AM (#35384666)
> Since there is the concept of sealed indictment, why are all the indictments not sealed (or none of them)?

There are a variety of reasons to seal an indictment (which will only remain sealed until the defendant is arrested), one of which os to facilitate arrest and avoid flight, another is to protect information in the indictment for as long as possible, especially if there is information that may be sensitive to ongoing investigations beside that of the person indicted, or if there is concern for the safety of victims/witnesses identified in the indictment.

> I guess this is to preserve the person that is accused

No, it is not. It is mostly to protect against actions of that person or their confederates, not to protect them.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by BrandoElFollito on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:15AM (#35384830)
Thank you - as mentioned in a parallel comment, I was completely mistaken about the reason for the seal. Now this is clear. Thanks.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by Tangurena2 on Friday March 31, 2023 @01:31PM (#35390287)
Trump has a habit of not paying his bills. This has led him to complain in the past year that he is having trouble hiring attorneys.