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Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by aaronbrethorst on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:50PM (#35381377)
Not to mention finally becoming a signatory to the International Criminal Court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_Internat...
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dogma1138 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:05PM (#35381502)
That cannot happen without a significant change to the constitution which will never happen.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by Spooky23 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:13PM (#35381569)
Treaties have an effect similar to a constitutional amendment.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dogma1138 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:27PM (#35381700)
No they do not, treaties when ratified become federal law, they are still bound by the constitution.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by Spooky23 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:43PM (#35381820)
My apologies, I phrased that inelegantly. It’s not that black and white.

Treaties have and do grant the Federal government additional powers. They cannot diminish powers or add something that is taken away.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dogma1138 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:55PM (#35381905)
They do not, self executing treaties become domestic laws, if these laws are not constitutional then the treaty is pretty much void.

And non self executing treaties are meaningless they pretty much mean that the US government promised something but it is not compelled to do anything about it and there is no mechanism that would require it to comply.

The US constitution is supreme it takes precedence over anything the legislative branch might legislate and any action the executive branch might take.

Alien tort is also not accepted when interpreting the constitution so you literally cannot interpret the constitution from the point of view of international or foreign laws.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by tablespoon on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:49PM (#35381857)
> Treaties have an effect similar to a constitutional amendment.

They obviously do not. If they did, you could basically abolish the Constitution with one with only the presidency, a bare majority of the Senate, and the cooperation of a foreign power. An actual Constitutional amendment must meet a much, much higher bar.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by pyuser583 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:04PM (#35381981)
This is not true - at least not any more.

Congress does get extra power when a law is passed as a treaty. Issues that are state business under the 10th Amendment become federal business.

But it’s nothing like a constitutional amendment.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dragonwriter on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:49AM (#35382720)
No, Treaties have an effect similar to (but not quite identical to) federal statute law.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dragonwriter on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:48AM (#35382714)
Yes it can. And I know this, because it already happened (the US became a signatory in 2000, but repudiated any intent to ratify in 2002.)

Are there potential circumstances where the US Constitution might conflict with obligations under the Rome Statute? Maybe; that certainly fairly regularly happens in practice with the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, but the US has signed and ratified that treaty.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by plandis on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:03PM (#35381479)
I really hope the US doesn’t agree to give up full sovereignty of its judicial process.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by arcticbull on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:06PM (#35381509)
> The seven countries that voted against the treaty were Iraq, Israel, Libya, China, Qatar, Yemen, and the United States.

Not a great look.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by neither_color on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:23PM (#35381669)
>As of March 2023, 123 states are members of the Court.[3] Other states that have not become parties to the Rome Statute include India, Indonesia, and China.[3]

I looked into it more and while 7 voted against, 21 abstained so votes don't tell the whole picture. Between China, Indonesia, India and The US you're talking a major chunk of the world population.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by nl on Friday March 31, 2023 @01:33AM (#35383024)
Not sure "a major chunk of the world population" is a good way of looking at this.

Anything China does is "a major chunk of the world population". Same with India.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dogma1138 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:11PM (#35381553)
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.”
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by arcticbull on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:17PM (#35381606)
Which is all fine and good until you go committing war crimes on foreign soil in regions that may not have proper legal frameworks. Committing war crimes in Iraq for instance. Which is kind of where the whole ICC thing comes into play - it's not really for like, speeding tickets. The US had the opportunity during development of the framework to engage and ensure all the other terms could be fairly met. Note that the text you quoted was also an amendment to what was meant to be a living document, albeit long since ossified.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dogma1138 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:30PM (#35381714)
The US did tried to do that, it was overruled which is why the Clinton administration voted no.

The US government is not allowed to participate or facilitate a criminal prosecution that would deny a US citizen their constitutional rights there has been a Supreme Court case about this already ironically in 1998 which was also one of the triggers for voting no.

On a side note the ICC is terrible, any party can bring up a case, there is no separation of duties, no defined scope and no right of appeal.

The ICC is nothing more than virtue signaling, and should never been established in its current form the world was just too high on its own supply of late 90’s hopium at that point to care.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by pyuser583 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:10PM (#35382015)
What was the court case?
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dogma1138 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:23PM (#35382103)
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by flangola7 on Monday April 03, 2023 @12:34AM (#35418593)
Any argument that contains the phrase "virtue signaling" can be safely discarded.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by stuckinhell on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:04PM (#35381979)
Never will happen. The US controls military power around the globe for now.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by xdennis on Friday March 31, 2023 @03:45AM (#35383943)
If the US never prosecutes its war criminals, someone has to.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by bayesian_horse on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:39AM (#35387843)
There are plenty of prosecutions and convictions of US soldiers for war crimes in the US.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by photonbeam on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:03PM (#35381482)
Seems problematic for compatibility with US Constitution though
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dragonwriter on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:33AM (#35382608)
> Not to mention finally becoming a signatory to the International Criminal Court.

We actually were a signatory (and one of the prime movers for regularizing the ad hoc processes which we had also been a prime mover for creating in Yugoslavia and Rwanda) of the Rome Statute under Clinton, though the signature was effectively withdrawn under Bush.