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Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by boomboomsubban on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:30PM (#35310115)
Cargo theft accounts for $15-30 billion dollars lost each year, my quick search says shoplifting accounts for $15-20 billion dollars per year.

Why do we hear so much more about shoplifting? Sure it's more public, but I've seen dozens of stories about how shoplifting is destroying retail and this is the first one about cargo theft I can recall.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by delecti on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:40PM (#35310183)
Cynically? Because people understand shoplifting more, and the media can blame it on the poor/homeless and use it as fuel to increase police budgets. Wage theft is also in the same order of magnitude (the infographic on Wikipedia says >$19 billion in 2012), and similarly doesn't get the same kind of coverage. Capital and the police scratch each other's backs.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by colechristensen on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:47PM (#35310238)
I have met several people who stole things for fun and talked openly about it. Not to make money or to fulfill some fundamental need, but just for the thrill and to get something they couldn’t afford or didn’t want to pay for.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by boomboomsubban on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:08PM (#35310381)
Ok? Do you think they're regularly doing this and account for a meaningful portion of shoplifting or do you think they're basically telling you their story about how one time they broke the law?
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by willcipriano on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:08AM (#35310807)
Can you prove the other way around?
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by boomboomsubban on Sunday March 26, 2023 @02:40AM (#35311724)
Aren't diapers known as one of the most frequently shoplifted items? I guess they could be some kind of challenge for kleptomaniacs, but it seems more likely they're expensive essential items.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by nostrebored on Sunday March 26, 2023 @04:39AM (#35312390)
… diapers, laundry detergent, etc. are stolen because they’re as good as currency. Anyone who lives in a poor area can tell you there is someone reselling these for a bit cheaper.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by willcipriano on Sunday March 26, 2023 @08:04AM (#35313572)
Baby formula as well. That's the reason it's typically locked up in stores, drug dealers will exchange formula for drugs.

https://www.phillyburbs.com/story/opinion/columns/2017/08/08...

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by zuminator on Sunday March 26, 2023 @04:47AM (#35312425)
According to this [0] page, the most commonly shoplifted items are "apparel followed by cosmetics, alcohol and electronics," so if true, then it's not primarily a matter of essential items. It goes on to say that "incidents peak during December," which I think would tend to imply that people were taking advantage of product placement during Christmas season as opposed to stocking up on food and staples for the winter. (Of course it's possible people in distress are stealing luxury goods to sell at a discount to then acquire necessities.)

Purely speculating but I think that to some extent advertising has been a victim of its own success in convincing people that their self-worth hinges upon their ability to consume goods and services. If you can afford it, buy. If you can't afford to buy, borrow. If you can't borrow, steal. Just don't be poor and get caught. (Being rich and getting caught usually isn't a problem.)

[0] https://blog.gitnux.com/shoplifting-statistics/

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by actually_a_dog on Sunday March 26, 2023 @06:29AM (#35312939)
A friend of mine has shoplifted all kinds of random-ass shit. I'm talking like, oh, an entire dinette set, on one occasion; a canoe, and (unfortunately) only one paddle on another. And, oh, yeah, that $300 Dutch oven in their kitchen cabinet? Yeah, that's stolen.

So, I suppose, you may never know, huh? Because it could be.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by massysett on Sunday March 26, 2023 @07:18AM (#35313216)
How did he/she get it out the door - just run out with it? A dinette set isn’t easily concealed :)
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by newjersey on Sunday March 26, 2023 @08:19AM (#35313673)
I don’t know if they were bragging about a fake story but I remember an ex Walmart store employee saying they scanned the bar code for a smaller tv and bought a bigger more expensive tv. This was before 9/11 though iirc just to give you a reference of time and technology so don’t try it anymore.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by colechristensen on Sunday March 26, 2023 @03:25PM (#35318505)
Long ago I worked at Home Depot and we were explicitly told to let people walk if they were stealing. It wouldn’t be concealed, just walked out the door.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by hgsgm on Sunday March 26, 2023 @07:02PM (#35320652)
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by DANmode on Sunday March 26, 2023 @01:12PM (#35316856)
Off-topic: how much time has this friend spent in your home alone?
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by colechristensen on Sunday March 26, 2023 @03:21PM (#35318452)
No these people had a years long habit of it, usually starting as kids or teenagers. Not every day but regularly still.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by fabianhjr on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:12PM (#35310408)
Some even end up going big and steal from banks/investors but that is a bigger no-no. ( FTX, Theranos, WireCard, Frank, WeWork, etc )
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by colechristensen on Sunday March 26, 2023 @03:28PM (#35318532)
Committing fraud to attempt to hide your failings is different than intentionally stealing things. Madoff is a better example of intentionally stealing.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by chongli on Sunday March 26, 2023 @08:18AM (#35313671)
Capital and the police scratch each other's backs.

Why wouldn’t capital be all over the police to crack down on cargo theft?

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by delecti on Sunday March 26, 2023 @10:37AM (#35314884)
If it's anything like the situation with the LA train thefts in the past couple years, it's because the security to guard things enroute would cost more than just eating the losses.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by chongli on Sunday March 26, 2023 @02:30PM (#35317763)
Well it’s one thing to guard and try to prevent thefts. It’s quite another to investigate them and arrest the perpetrators. If there’s some gang stealing trains or truckloads of goods then police could presumably find them and arrest them.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by gruez on Sunday March 26, 2023 @09:26AM (#35314200)
>the media can blame it on the poor/homeless and use it as fuel to increase police budgets

Why would "the media" care about police budgets?

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by themedia on Sunday March 26, 2023 @09:36AM (#35314300)
It drives engagement which means greater impact.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by gruez on Sunday March 26, 2023 @09:50AM (#35314439)
You could argue the same about wage theft, arguably even more so considering the viewers likely has a personal stake. Why don't we see this happening with wage theft?
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by delecti on Sunday March 26, 2023 @11:46AM (#35315726)
Because wage theft is committed by the ownership class. Ted Turner, Jeff Bezos, and Rupert Murdoch don't want people upset about wage theft because they benefit from it.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by gruez on Sunday March 26, 2023 @08:16PM (#35321239)
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by delecti on Sunday March 26, 2023 @10:44AM (#35314970)
Keeping people scared keeps them watching. Most media would lead you to believe crime is way up (it blipped up slightly, but has declined considerably in the last 30 years).

Also, there's very little in the way of mainstream media that isn't owned by wealthy people. The media is one major arm through which capital acts.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by rsynnott on Sunday March 26, 2023 @11:09AM (#35315232)
And all pale in comparison next to tax evasion (the IRS estimates this at one trillion dollars per year for the US, and even more conservative estimates are in the hundreds of billions).
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by throwayyy479087 on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:36PM (#35310160)
Cargo theft is organized crime and addressed by the FBI. Shoplifting is now legal, which people do not like. One has changed status, the other hasn’t. That’s why.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by mym1990 on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:50PM (#35310271)
>Shoplifting is now legal

Wut?

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by jjulius on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:06PM (#35310372)
They've taken stories about a very small number of cities, albeit large metro areas such as San Francisco, reapproaching how they prosecute shoplifters or how police prioritize responding to shoplifters. Not only is shoplifting not legal on a broad scale, but it's a very disingenuous interpretation.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by brightball on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:18PM (#35310448)
Wasn’t there some city that said they wouldn’t pursue anything under $1,000? I swear I remember hearing that in the last couple of years.

EDIT: Found several stories about it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/san-francisco-shoplifters-theft...

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by nemothekid on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:37PM (#35310585)
>said they wouldn’t pursue anything under $1,000?

When your iPhone gets stolen and the police does nothing does that mean stealing iPhones is legal?

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by 29083011397778 on Sunday March 26, 2023 @01:34AM (#35311353)
Effectively, yes. Going ten over the limit here isn't "legal", per se, but it's not something you'll be pulled over for, so everyone does it. It's "legal".
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by hardlianotion on Sunday March 26, 2023 @05:18AM (#35312578)
Still illegal, but police don’t prioritise enforcement. This can be written precisely.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by JumpCrisscross on Sunday March 26, 2023 @06:02AM (#35312797)
Eh, de facto legalised. When states legalise marijuana and the Fed’s don’t enforce, we freely call it legalised, even if that isn’t technically correct, because it practically is. Shoplifting is de facto legalised in San Francisco.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by mym1990 on Sunday March 26, 2023 @11:46AM (#35315719)
Plenty of people get pulled over for going ten over, some states are known for pulling over for anything over the limit. Hell, lots of people get profiled and pulled over for nothing at all. It’s so interesting to see this kind of privilege on display, thinking that pushing the legal boundaries is now technically “legal”.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by BuyMyBitcoins on Sunday March 26, 2023 @02:35AM (#35311696)
You’re correct but you’re also missing the point. If law enforcement outright says that they won’t show up to enforce a law, there isn’t a difference between following that law and breaking it. You face the same consequences.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by knodi123 on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:45PM (#35310650)
> Not only is shoplifting not legal on a broad scale, but it's a very disingenuous interpretation.

Disingenuous? You mean intentionally deceptive?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/san-francisco-shoplifters-theft...

The subtitle says "Walgreens has closed 22 stores in the city, where thefts under $950 are effectively decriminalized." Refusal to arrest or prosecute, which is the reality on the ground, is de facto legalization. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's not very helpful to say "no, that's disingenuous, you and I both know it's a harlequin mallard."

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by magicalist on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:10AM (#35310827)
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by jjulius on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:55PM (#35310718)
... completely ignoring the part where I highlighted that GP said "shoplifting is now legal" in a broad sense, and I then specified that that is, in reality, limited to a handful of cities. It would be obvious that San Francisco is one of them, and that I never argued that it wasn't de facto legal there.

Hence the phrase, in the part you quoted, "on a broad scale". Bailing from one city is not a broad scale - I'm sitting in the parking lot of a busy Walgreens in a different state waiting on food truck tacos as I edit this.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by IE6 on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:02PM (#35310355)
It's ok, they're just repeating what the TV man told them.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by farmaway on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:09AM (#35310823)
Ignorance and sarcasm are an ugly combination. Try to be more informed and less snide in the future.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/san-francisco-shoplifters-theft...

"San Francisco Has Become a Shoplifter’s Paradise: Walgreens has closed 22 stores in the city, where thefts under $950 are effectively decriminalized."

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by magicalist on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:14AM (#35310856)
Why are we still citing a WSJ oped trying to amplify a company's press releases that even they now admit were a made up narrative?
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by farmaway on Sunday March 26, 2023 @01:56AM (#35311489)
Can you please stop evading and engage in good faith?

San Francisco decriminalized thefts under a dollar value of $950. This is direct, object-level proof of the original point in question. It is an established fact independent of your opinion on the Wall Street Journal.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by magicalist on Sunday March 26, 2023 @09:15AM (#35314086)
> San Francisco decriminalized thefts under a dollar value of $950. This is direct, object-level proof of the original point in question.

Even a cursory search will inform you this is false, so let's not swing around accusations of acting in bad faith. Shoplifting under $950 is a misdemeanor and still punishable by jail time.

The argument that the only way to stop shoplifting is to have tougher sentences is the kind of galaxy brain take that gave us five decades and counting of the War on Drugs.

And as I noted in another comment, there was no evidence of this rash of shoplifting these stories so breathlessly repeated, and Walgreens themselves now admit it

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/06/business/walgreens-shopli...

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/Is-shoplifting-forcin...

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by farmaway on Monday April 03, 2023 @06:59AM (#35421464)
>Even a cursory search will inform you this is false

I did a cursory search and instantly substantiated the WSJ's claim:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/after-san-francisco-sho...

>In an interview with NBC News last week, Scott suggested that California's Proposition 47, which voters passed in 2014 and lowered criminal sentences for certain nonviolent crimes like shoplifting and check forgery, is being exploited by those who want to commit theft. The initiative set a threshold of $950 for shoplifting to be considered a misdemeanor, which doesn't prompt law enforcement to make an arrest, rather than a felony, which could incur harsh penalties like jail time.

Just give up the semantic games already. Walgreens is closing many of their stores in SF due to crime. Your last link pulls the trick of acknowledging objective reality in the first paragraph, then inventing fanfiction to handwave it away for the rest of the article:

>One of the stores set to close, on Ocean Avenue, had only seven reported shoplifting incidents this year and a total of 23 since 2018, the data showed. While not all shoplifting incidents are reported to police, the five stores slated to close had fewer than two recorded shoplifting incidents a month on average since 2018.

Store owners aren't reporting thefts of under $950 to the police because the DA and police told them they won't do anything about it, which is the point I have proven that you keep trying to dodge.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by fortran77 on Sunday March 26, 2023 @06:25AM (#35312917)
And you're just repeating what DailyKos or OccupyDemocrats told you!
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by nine_k on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:59PM (#35310742)
Welcome to San Francisco, where police would not be bothered by cases of theft that are too petty for them, which is below $950.

https://www.hoover.org/research/why-shoplifting-now-de-facto...

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by tbihl on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:36PM (#35310159)
Article says the average cargo theft is $214K, which I'll guess is more than average shoplifting, meaning cargo theft is less frequent. Logistics companies are less relatable than physical stores where people have been.

Cargo theft is just less relatable in every way.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by imtringued on Sunday March 26, 2023 @07:21AM (#35313241)
Also the criminals end up rich and in capitalism having money increases your self worth and you are rewarded for having money no matter where it came from.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by gruez on Sunday March 26, 2023 @09:34AM (#35314275)
>in capitalism having money increases your self worth and you are rewarded for having money no matter where it came from.

I can't imagine what type of economic system where this isn't true. Even in communism you're rewarded for having money because it allows you to obtain more resources.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by fabianhjr on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:07PM (#35310378)
The same reason the media doesn't focus on the biggest theft category: wage theft.

It is easier to vilify individuals than to reduce the need for food theft (depressed wages and lack of economic opportunities for most people)

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by missedthecue on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:28PM (#35310514)
The media also doesn't focus on the inverse of wage theft: time theft, which is probably an order of magnitude larger than wage theft, if not more.

edit: CBS reports wage theft at $50 billion a year while a 2007 study in the Kentucky CPA Journal puts time theft in the US at $400 billion per year.

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by Firmwarrior on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:34PM (#35310565)
Haha, is "time theft" when you post on HackerNews while you're compiling instead of checking Slack and email?
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by pclmulqdq on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:38PM (#35310593)
Don't "@" me. I swear my HN shitposting is marketing, or something.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by vuln on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:13AM (#35310853)
Yeah I’m out here _evangelizing_ or some shit. For what I don’t know.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by missedthecue on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:43AM (#35311033)
Lying on time sheets is usually what's meant by time theft, not checking HN while youre compiling.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by incone123 on Sunday March 26, 2023 @10:59AM (#35315131)
In Barbara Ehrenrich's book Nickled and Dimed she got a job at a big box store (i think it was Walmart) and orientation included telling the workers that time theft was doing anything other than work while on the clock.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by fortran77 on Sunday March 26, 2023 @06:23AM (#35312902)
"But Wattabout ... Wage Theft" is just a standard trope-response on Hacker News whenever there's anything about "theft".
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by raverbashing on Sunday March 26, 2023 @06:49AM (#35313061)
The same people who complain about "time theft" are the ones that try to skip on paying overtime, funnily enough

Some people do slack off but 99% of the time "time theft" is the boss being unreasonable (I'll keep it polite for HN)

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by newjersey on Sunday March 26, 2023 @08:23AM (#35313702)
Exactly. I am at the bottom of the totem pole as it goes. I am definitely not management. How am I “exempt”?
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by lotsofpulp on Sunday March 26, 2023 @08:42AM (#35313848)
Federal minimum exempt pay should be at least $150k if not $200k.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by gretch on Saturday March 25, 2023 @11:54PM (#35310711)
Because cargo theft is not something an average person has any involvement with.

People know what shoplifting is and they might encounter it in their day to day life.

If some cargo container goes missing, what does that even have to do with me? It’s just some minutiae of an inefficient system as far as an average person is aware

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by rizzom5000 on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:07AM (#35310801)
Between the two, on the low end, that looks like a per capita donation of around $100/year to criminals, not including all of the other associated costs related to theft prevention, enforcement, incarceration and so on.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by newsclues on Sunday March 26, 2023 @06:02AM (#35312799)
Wait until you find out how much wage theft occurs.
Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by s1artibartfast on Sunday March 26, 2023 @11:44AM (#35315692)
Visibility and customer impact would be my answer.

I've never seen a car go with theft but I've seen masked Bandits robbing a store several times. It is very uncomfortable and frankly scary to watch people come in with balaclavas and start grabbing power tools or whatever they want.

It is also very frustrating to shop in stores where many items are under lock and key

Re:Cargo theft, led by food and beverage, is surging across ... by nitwit005 on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:39PM (#35316433)
The news companies hardly have reporters anymore, and are often more than happy to pick up press releases companies create for them. It frequently seems to be a way to lobby for more police protection.