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Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by clnq on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:57AM (#35290885)
The consumer decides what they are prepared to pay for a product, unless the demand is inelastic. And for food overall, the demand is inelastic. Consumers cannot just say "food is too expensive for me, so I think I'm going to to go without it this month".

They can choose between the individual products they buy, so it wouldn't be a problem if just some food items got expensive. But the price of food overall is inflating.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by rcme on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:05PM (#35291039)
Demand for food overall is inelastic, but the demand for specific foodstuffs is elastic. The measure of inflation we're discussing is across all foodstuffs.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by vanderZwan on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:11PM (#35291171)
Aren't you just confirming what they said?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by sebzim4500 on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:17PM (#35291264)
Not really, people could eat cheaper food. Not to mention that most people eat too many calories.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by deusum on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:32PM (#35291543)
Expecting everyone to just give up meat and bread for rice and beans is nonsense. And eating too many calories is unhealthy, but who are you to decide. You're blaming the victim.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bryanlarsen on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:48PM (#35291842)
Steak consumption is down 20%. I presume hot dog consumption is up a similar amount.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by genocidicbunny on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:12PM (#35295600)
If the prices on hotdogs are like what I've seen at the store, no it is not. They're not priced quite like a steak, but it's close. And then you got the buns which are also like $5 for a 8-pack of the cheap store brand ones.

A lot of the basic foodstuffs -- dry beans, grains, milk, eggs, flour -- have all gone up in price significantly. I've seen prices double over the last two years on some of these.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bryanlarsen on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:17PM (#35296975)
They've gone up in price, but they still retain their status as the cheapest meat. The people who aren't buying steak are buying something else instead.

In fact, I believe that the price of hot dogs have gone up more than the price of steak has. Yet people are still buying more hot dogs and less steak.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by temprose on Friday March 24, 2023 @09:26PM (#35298127)
You don't have to buy the buns lol. I remember using sliced bread instead of the buns because it's cheaper if you only use 1 slice to wrap the meat. I still see the $1.99 for a loaf of wonder bread or whatever it's called. That's plenty of slices for plenty of hot dogs lol.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by deusum on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:36PM (#35291616)
And to add to that, these companies hide addictive processed sugars and additives in such you that can be psychologically if not physically dependent on things without realizing it.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by gorbachev on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:35PM (#35292649)
Until due to increased demand that cheap food also becomes more expensive.

It will happen.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by clnq on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:35PM (#35294335)
This is an interesting point. It's definitely easy to switch to cheaper calories. Candy bars have high calorie counts and are cheap. Even today in the UK, you could buy 2000 kcal worth of candy bars for about £1.60.

And the inflation will push some people toward such food choices. Maybe not that extreme, but switching to cheaper food generally means eating less nutritious food (unless you were over-spending), which is awful.

Being pushed into single-digits spending on food daily isn't outside the realm of reality. £10 a day is about £305 a month. This is a lot of money for some vulnerable groups, like large single parent families, retirees, students, some young adults, and similar.

The inflation is also making it so that you can both: buy less food or less nutritious food for the same amount of money, and you have less money for food as other expenses have inflated. Finally, less healthy food demand has long-term consequences to do with its supply going down and prices going up further.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by slaymaker1907 on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:18PM (#35294867)
What kind of candy bars are those? That's like 10 candy bars. A US Hershey bar is only 220 calories which is pretty standard for a candy bar. The real MVP for calories at minimum price is peanut butter. A bottle of Walmart peanut butter apparently goes for $2.18 currently and is 2880 calories total.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by jmercouris on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:53PM (#35295302)
I've been thinking about this for many years. I really think flour is the best ratio of calories to dollar. However, I've been unable to satisfactorily quantify the energy and time costs into equivalents.

In Germany I'm able to buy 1kg of flour for about 50 euro cents at Edeka. I don't know how much bread that makes, but it is A LOT. I'm certain that it is significantly more than 2880 calories.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by acjacobson on Saturday March 25, 2023 @07:04AM (#35301450)
Flour is clearly the winner vs. peanut butter when comparing price per calories. At Walmart.com it is $2.12 for a 5lb (2.26kg) bag which is about 8250 calories. But yeah, processing that into bread (home energy cost and time cost) is tough to calculate and probably depends on your situation.

Still there are in-between options - pasta for instance is more bang for your buck than peanut butter and is much easier to prep yourself than bread.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by clnq on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:04PM (#35329205)
It's interesting this conversation evolved into one about the most cost-effective sources of calories. Unintentionally, it serves as a poignant reflection of how things are going in our times. Many people will need to consider cost of calories seriously soon, many already do so.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by clnq on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:11PM (#35296914)
These are Racer from Aldi, with a pack of six being £0.79 and about 1000 kcal.

Anyways, it was to argue a point. Most calorie-dense foods are unhealthy if eaten alone. Peanut-butter, and flour included.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by pacifika on Saturday March 25, 2023 @06:10AM (#35301181)
Bounties are 500 calories
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by zarzavat on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:56PM (#35295366)
Cheaper food is cheaper for a reason. The human body doesn’t just require calories. You need other nutrients too: protein, fat, vitamins and minerals. Usual advice is to eat a balanced diet, but that is expensive. Even eggs are expensive.

If everybody starts eating even more trash than usual then that will cost the government more in healthcare costs.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by __turbobrew__ on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:11PM (#35296355)
You can eat a balanced diet just off of canned food and rice. The fact that people expect to be able to eat fresh bell peppers in the middle of winter is the issue.

Eating seasonal and preserved foods is how we survived before the age of refrigeration and global logistics chains and maybe we should reconsider what is normal.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by illiarian on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:14PM (#35296408)
> Eating seasonal and preserved foods is how we survived before the age of refrigeration and global logistics chains and maybe we should reconsider what is normal.

That we survived doesn't mean we had a balanced diet.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by illiarian on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:17PM (#35291270)
> But the price of food overall is inflating.

I'm a senior programmer with outrageous salary, and I still paused yesterday looking at the price of beef. Went for chicken instead.

I wish inflation numbers would also include things like "percentage of income spent on just living: food and shelter"

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by bcrosby95 on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:21PM (#35291343)
I've been off beef for a long time now (family of 5). My grocery bill is $2k/month and my kids are still young. I can't imagine what it'll be when they're all teenagers.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by FpUser on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:38PM (#35291646)
I was buying a piece of tenderloin in Costco once a week. In a short time the average price went from about $150 to $200. I could still afford it but something in me cringe so I stopped buying it. That is in Canada
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by __turbobrew__ on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:16PM (#35296431)
Ground beef prices at Costco went up a boat load as well. Costco only sells things at most a 2% markup so Costco prices are a pretty good metric for inflation.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by temprose on Friday March 24, 2023 @09:29PM (#35298160)
I love the fact that I can still get 2 dozen eggs for $6 at Costco, meanwhile it's like at least $5 a dozen anywhere else in NYC.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by nosianu on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:46PM (#35291806)
Looking at the conditions that "beef" is raised in - feedlots specifically - the price for beef is way too low. Of course it should be raised by laws requiring better living conditions for the animals, not by the operations staying the same but making more profit. Same for all kinds of meat really. I happily eat meat, and of the more pricey variety and not the cheapest I can get, but I'm willing to pay the price (and I'm not earning much) if the animals are treated better.

If that also leads to meat being a side dish instead of the main dish more often that's probably for the better for overall population health too AFAIK.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by jollyllama on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:16PM (#35292291)
Yeah, but that hasn't been done, so the price has gone up for some other reason.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by nyerp on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:26PM (#35291436)
> They can choose between the individual products they buy, so it wouldn't be a problem if just some food items got expensive. But the price of food overall is inflating.

That is a false binary. You can still buy flour (or naan or pita), cheese and tomato sauce instead of pre-made pizzas, sacrificing your time against rising food costs. You can buy lentils instead of steak, sacrificing your preferences against rising food costs. Or you can travel further to a warehouse store and buy in bulk...

When enough people act empowered in the face of adversity, we don't have to sweat "greedflation". Retailers will learn their lesson.

Yes, I understand rising prices make life worse. But don't let anyone tell you there's nothing you can do about it. Learn to cook, change stores, eat differently, maybe even move.

"My Pizza Pops went up 25%, I am powerless in the face of inflation!" Just no.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by pixl97 on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:29PM (#35291485)
If flour, cheese, and tomato sauce also go up 25% what the shit is gained from your entire post? The people at the bottom of this still have issues buying food.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by AlecSchueler on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:36PM (#35291619)
Now add working two labour intensive jobs and raising children into that mix.

"Let them make cake"

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by WOTERMEON on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:32PM (#35291521)
Plain flour is more expensive
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by pjc50 on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:52PM (#35291907)
Correct. Almost all flour-containing goods have a cheap version which is cheaper than making from scratch. Buying bread flour and making bread is usually a net economic negative, it's just something that people do for fun.

The exception is maybe if you've got a good Indian supermarket and can buy at the 10-20kg range, then churn out a lot of chapattis.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by Kailhus on Friday March 24, 2023 @09:37PM (#35298217)
Ok so as an another commenter mentionned: 1. Spare time to cook food from scratch is a class thing. Most peeps have to work stupid hours. 2. To go to a warehouse and buy wholesale, you need #1 and make sure your petrol cost offset the savings which imho is absolutely unreasonable.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by dangwhy on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:55PM (#35291946)
But can't they switch to lower priced foods. I don't understand why its inelastic.Thats something I've done personally.

Why does higher priced food keep inflating too if consumer has no control.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by jacquesm on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:01PM (#35292042)
> But can't they switch to lower priced foods.

They could always eat cake.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by dangwhy on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:05PM (#35292115)
whats this supposed ot mean
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by luckylion on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:27PM (#35292498)
It's how rich Western Europeans say that the poor will revolt unless socialism. It references something some French princess allegedly said who, when told the peasants don't have bread to eat, replied that they should eat cake instead. Some claim it as a sign of the royal disconnect that lead to the French Revolution.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by dangwhy on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:32PM (#35292596)
i was talking about high priced food inflation which GP claimed consumers have no control over.

Not sure how this would be relevant.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by luckylion on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:41PM (#35292763)
Apparently suggesting they buy raw ingredients instead of processed foods is the same as suggesting they eat cake if they don't have flour to make bread, because nobody likes the idea that consumers can adjust their choices.
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by illiarian on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:19PM (#35296459)
This assumes that

a) raw ingredients didn't go up in price either. They did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35291270

b) making food from raw ingredients is cheaper than buying (at least some of the ingredients) pre-made. Again, it isn't for a surprising number of foods because, you know, economies of scale. Prime example is bread.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by luckylion on Saturday March 25, 2023 @05:41AM (#35301035)
It is for a lot though. You can buy a kilogram of rice (or even larger amounts, price didn't move at all in Northern Germany), or you can buy the 2-minute-microwave-stuff (price did move). You can buy 2kg of potatoes for the price of 750g french fries. You can buy soup ingredients or you can buy canned soup etc etc.

Why do you think economies of scale wouldn't happen at the potato-selling business? Are they buying and selling individual potatoes?

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by illiarian on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:12AM (#35302811)
We can go back and forth listing every single food under the sun, but the fact if the matter remains: food prices have gone up. Including for "ingredients".

It's easy to dismiss your opponent with "but rice and potatoes aren't more expensive". Well, I don't only eat rice and potatoes, and prices for other stuff like meat and milk has gone up.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by samstave on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:28PM (#35293488)
Why do people keep using the term "inelastic", why not just say 'rigid', 'stiff', 'fixed', - I assume they are trying to state they dont ebb/flow?
Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by clnq on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:24PM (#35294207)
No, "inelastic demand" is a specific term in economics. It means that demand for a product does not change much or at all depending on its price. Think about bathroom tissue, tobacco and diesel. Whether the price goes up 20% or down 20%, about the same amount of the product will be sold.

Elastic demand is the opposite. Some products have elastic demand, like luxuries and durables. An expensive car trim might be very price-sensitive because it is a luxury product. People will buy much fewer of those in austere times. They may buy fewer washing machines, too, because these products are durables. They are often bought "as an upgrade" or when one broke but could be repaired for cheaper.

Re:UK: Food inflation rises to 18.2% as it hits highest rate... by 88913527 on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:09PM (#35295549)
> Consumers cannot just say "food is too expensive for me, so I think I'm going to to go without it this month".

One could be temporarily elastic, e.g. thaw meats from the freezer, eat shelf-stable food from the pantry. And in a few weeks, prices could be different and they do tend to bounce around week to week.