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Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by vishnugupta on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @05:35AM (#35244161)
Continuing the theme of the article the current banking crisis has exposed two conflicting functions of money i.e., store of value and a vehicle of investment both of which are facilitated by banks.

Keeping money safe, whether physically or digitally, comes at a cost. Banks absorb this cost because they make money through credit creation, maturity transformation, and interchange fees. They even pass on some of that profit to depositors. However, each of these banking activities create risk, which is passed onto the deposit holders and is offset, to an extent, by deposit insurance. In low to zero-interest-rate scenarios, banks act as pure custodians as their revenues decline, which is why we saw EU banks charging negative interest rates, i.e., a fee, to maintain customer deposits.

There's a delicate balance and an inherent conflict between keeping money safe and earning yields, the two functions performed by a commercial bank. Customers don't perceive this conflict unless a bank breaks down as SVB did.

I think this crisis is the strongest yet reason to push for CBDCs as only a central bank can fully guarantee a deposit. In terms of systems design, this is a clear delineation of responsibilities.

CBDC: If you want safe custody of your money.

Bank: If you want to lend your money in return for a yield. And as with any lending, you take the risk of a borrower defaulting.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by kzrdude on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @06:07AM (#35244335)
In the US there used to be the Glass-Steagall Act "effectively separating commercial banking from investment banking"; established in 1933 but it was partly repealed in 1999.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by i67vw3 on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:44AM (#35244925)
Could the Glass-Steagall Act prevented the 2008 banking crisis?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by rjtavares on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:58AM (#35245022)
We don't know. Glass Steagall Act doesn't really deal with the fundamental problem with 2008, which was at its core an error in measuring potential risk of new finantial products. It could have prevented some of the worst impacts of that error, but we're not sure.

Here's quote from former Federal Reserve Vice Chairman Alan Blinder: "What bad practices would have been prevented if Glass-Steagall was still on the books? I've yet to hear a good answer."[1]

You know that saying: generals always prepare to fight the last war.

Finantial Regulations are like that too. We don't know where the next crisis will come from, and so we don't know if we're ready for it.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/10/14/448685233...

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by nobodyandproud on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:18AM (#35245185)
Wouldn’t Glass Stegall have made mortgage backed securities difficult if not outright impossible to create?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by rjtavares on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:27AM (#35245259)
No. It could have prevented some banks from owning them directly, and that could have cointained their growth, but we don't know really.

Crisis would happened anyway for sure, but the scale could have been smaller. But it's hard to do what-ifs.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by vonmoltke on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:30AM (#35245280)
Since mortgage-backed securities have been a thing since the mid 1980s, no.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by danaris on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:46AM (#35246016)
The difference between war and financial regulations is that there is no reason that the conditions that caused a previous financial crisis can't reoccur if you don't regulate against them. It's less like war that way, and more like health: you don't say "well, I got salmonella poisoning last year, so that's the last war; there's no reason to be careful about cooking chicken all the way through now!"

If letting retail banks take depositors' money and gamble with it was a bad idea then, it's almost certainly still a bad idea now.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by spacebanana7 on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @06:25AM (#35244436)
A hybrid solution could be a grade of bank accounts whose deposits are backed 1:1 by short dated government debt.

You get most of the safe custody benefits of CBDC whilst minimising the costs of restructuring the banking system. Customers could still use all the same banking apps and branches.

Such a program could even be eased in over time by steadily increasing the proportion of bank balance sheets allocated to short dated government debt.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by JDEW on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:32AM (#35244847)
Narrow banks. The FED didn’t like the idea…[0]

[0] - https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2018/09/fed-nixes-narrow-...

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by spacebanana7 on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:24AM (#35245768)
That's deeply frustrating. The FED's potential opposition about balance sheet control and reverse repo have clear weaknesses pointed out by the author you cite.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by drexlspivey on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:13AM (#35245135)
You can already do that by buying a money market fund no?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by spacebanana7 on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:22AM (#35245208)
To the best of my understanding you can’t initiate payments with a money market fund using, say direct debits or visa/Mastercard. So they can’t replace an ordinary bank account.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by thwayunion on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:42AM (#35245375)
Can't replace it. But with some trivial API glue and a cron job, you can get away with storing next to nothing in the bank account on most days as long as all of your credits and debits are scheduled and upper-bounded. E.g., if the debit side of your entire financial life is payroll + rent + credit card bills.

But this shifts risk from your FDIC insurance to your SIPC insurance.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by zaxcellent on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:15AM (#35245666)
There are accounts out there which can function this way, often called Cash Management Accounts. Fidelity has one that works this way: https://accountopening.fidelity.com/ftgw/aong/aongapp/intere...
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by d1sxeyes on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:19AM (#35244745)
Most EU banks have always charged a fee for maintaining deposits (at least for private individuals).

In the UK, banking is normally free, but on the continent, you normally pay for the account itself and any cards you may hold. Some banks may offer fee waivers for those whose salaries get paid into the account, or if you have a cardless account etc, but it is fairly common practice to charge a small fee for the bank account itself.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by AdamN on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:20AM (#35245197)
In addition to the fee they are leveraging your deposits - and European banks are no less risky for the depositor than the US ones (just look at the 2008 era). Having a 'true bank' that does not leverage your money and has no investment risk would probably be useful to a certain segment of people but the assets would still have counterparty risk and everything else so in the end a very niche market since the best way to handle risk is to distribute to multiple counterparties, currencies, etc... and then you might as well get the interest from the money at that point since you've de-risked so much already.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by f_devd on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:14AM (#35247396)
Since 2008 EU banks have gotten more stringent requirements per regulations compared to the US, the degree of additional risk is hard to know for sure without a large scale collapse.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by ericmay on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:54AM (#35247984)
What are you basing this on? What are some of the ways EU banks (does it not vary by country?) have gotten more stringent requirements per regulations compared to the US?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by f_devd on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @01:06PM (#35249143)
All EU banks (afaik) need to follow Basel III regulations, while smaller US banks don't have to due to lobbying
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by frozenwind on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:37AM (#35244881)
CBDC is a another puzzle piece of a future dystopia. We're exchanging freedom for the sake of a security façade.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by ricardobayes on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:16AM (#35245675)
On the other hand, imagine what level of services we could have if it wasn't for the tax dodgers and cash in hand payments. I reckon we could fund universal basic income just from whitening the economy, in any given country.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by ifyoubuildit on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:22AM (#35245750)
I imagine we'd have a similar level of services, and the same level of urgency to raise taxes.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by v4dok on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:40AM (#35245935)
Depends on the country. For countries with a lot of "black money" and corruption there is an obvious benefit. Taxes yield less because they don't capture the whole economy, as a result taxes are increased and get paid by the "idiots/ethical" which creates a vicious cycle. Now if tomorrow you had everyone paying taxes then 2 things would happen which would result in a new equilibrium. 1. The tax revenues would massively increase 2. People would push for lower taxes because suddenly they care more as their real marginal tax rate is the nominal one.

Would this result in more efficient spending of taxes in a corrupt economy? Not immediately. A lot of shitty people would get reach fast in the meantime, but the system would balance because people would no longer participate in the corruption directly as they used to.

Yes, you remove some freedom, but I am convinced that for societies that have a trust disconnection between the government and the people would be a net benefit (assuming democracy).

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by sidewndr46 on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @02:29PM (#35265202)
crypto isn't some magic wand that just makes corruption go away. It'd just be baked into the new system from the get go.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by prottog on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:55AM (#35246128)
Imagine if we just had a land value tax to replace all other taxes. Can't dodge that particular tax, unless someone is able to hide a piece of land from being seen.

> I reckon we could fund universal basic income just from whitening the economy, in any given country.

I reckon that no economy, no matter how advanced, is so productive that you can provide a systemic incentive for everyone to not produce anything yet still be guaranteed to be supported. Will some work even when they don't have to? Sure. Will more people not work than before? Almost definitely. Will this effect compound over time and topple the system sooner rather than later? Guaranteed.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by danaris on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @01:23PM (#35249400)
There's an ample body of research on basic income now that indicates that almost everyone still works under it. The people who don't are people we shouldn't be requiring to work, like the disabled, new parents (still usually only one), and full-time students.

It is much more likely that the effect will fade over time, as people who are traumatized and exhausted from being forced to work terrible jobs for inhumane hours recover and once against find themselves ready to do something more active and productive.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by snapcaster on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @03:40PM (#35251439)
Where is the evidence that isn't temporary, non-universal, or other clear confounders like that? Are you virtue signaling that you have inherent work ethics or things like that or do you _actually_ think people would still work if they didn't have to. Comments like this on HN make me think nobody here ever speaks to a real human
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by danaris on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:05PM (#35254025)
If you want evidence that is permanent and universal, guess what you have to do?

You have to actually implement Universal Basic Income on a large scale, and keep it going for decades.

If you aren't willing to support doing that because "there isn't permanent, universal evidence", then you're creating a catch-22.

There is evidence that is robust and scientifically rigorous. That should be enough, at the very least, to say that we should be doing larger, more extended trials, and to at least plant a seed of doubt about this idea that humans are inherently lazy selfish slobs.

As for "real humans", I've talked to plenty. I know multiple who are constantly frustrated that they are not allowed to work productively, because of disabilities they have that make them inconvenient to employ (as with many disabilities and chronic illnesses, they have good days and bad days: they can work very well some of the time, but can't commit to a schedule that the company controls, because they can't even commit to a schedule that they consciously control).

I don't personally know a single person who, if given the chance, would choose to abandon work of all kinds forever.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by snapcaster on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:42PM (#35255611)
"I don't personally know a single person who, if given the chance, would choose to abandon work of all kinds forever. " this is what i mean. You're in some kind of insane bubble and need to wake up. Does everyone around you have a "career"? you're glorifying work way beyond regular person life experience
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by danaris on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @08:15AM (#35259890)
No, they definitely don't. Did you see where I said I knew disabled people who were unemployed because, in our current system, they are unemployable, but actually want to be doing stuff?

The point isn't "glorifying work". It's that people don't actually want to be couch potatoes. They want enrichment. They want activity. They want meaningful stimulation.

Look at us more like zoo animals and maybe it'll make more sense: we know that giving tigers a pumpkin full of meat is more beneficial for their mental health than just dropping the same meat in front of them to eat with no effort. Humans aren't that different.

Even beyond that, though, humans want purpose. We want our lives to have some meaning, and it's pretty hard for most people to find that in sitting around doing nothing all day every day unless they have no other choice.

Perhaps it would also help to note that "work" isn't synonymous with "go to an office and file insurance claims for 8 hours" or anything like that. Writing is work. Acting is work. Making video games is work. Helping old people get around is work.

But the other thing is...if you would, if given the chance, just sit back and relax all day every day...then I hope that you get that chance! I believe that every person should have the opportunity to do what feels most fulfilling to them, and not just be required to work at specific kinds of jobs for specific types of schedules simply to be allowed to continue existing on this planet.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by prottog on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @12:59PM (#35263934)
> They want enrichment. They want activity. They want meaningful stimulation.

> Writing is work. Acting is work. Making video games is work. Helping old people get around is work.

All true, but keep in mind that value is created when work produces something that someone else wants to consume. Enrichment and meaningful stimulation to one may not produce anything useful to another, and in fact can often come from consumption. The alternative to being paid to be at a job you don't want to be at isn't sitting around doing nothing all day; it's being out there, enjoying themselves, living life, consuming products and services that others produced.

Would you rather clean toilets (providing what is desired by others, i.e. having a clean bathroom) for five hours or go do your favorite leisure activity, be it playing basketball, hiking, or spending time at a museum (consuming to fulfill your desire), for the same five hours, if you got the same universal basic income payment regardless of your choice?

Work is often hard and stressful. People have to deal with irate customers. People have to sweat and lift heavy things and have their bodies ache afterwards. People have to struggle and wrack their brains to solve a technical problem under a deadline. People have to do all sorts of things that they may not want to do in the immediate moment. Currently, the incentive for that is remuneration for time and labor performed. When you take that incentive away, who remains to do the work that is hard, isn't enjoyable, and may not be fulfilling?

What's that you say -- humans want their lives to having meaning, and this will somehow result in all of that stuff being done, anyway? All against the backdrop of a culture that is steadily moving away from one that values hard work in a moral sense? I'm skeptical.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by ss108 on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:00AM (#35246201)
Do you think the reason why we don't have that is because of a lack of money, and not a lack of political will?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by CapstanRoller on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @01:33PM (#35249528)
I don't think the answer is that simple. Sure, cash users are an easy target here, but upon closer inspection things just don't add up. Targeting cash users would have some deeply negative side effects for everyone.

To quote patio11: "The optimal amount of fraud is non-zero". The financial system needs slack, otherwise it destroys itself.

https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by wwalexander on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @01:48PM (#35249760)
What makes you think that the increased tax revenue would go to anything benefitting regular citizens?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by webnrrd2k on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @05:17PM (#35252710)
"Economic Whitening" appears to be suppressing the gray and black markets.

I haven't heard the term before, and thought maybe it had something to do with racial BS. (or maybe a teeth whitening campaign?)

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by cflynnus on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:48AM (#35244956)
Thinking CBDCs are “safe” is extremely naive. They’re a dystopian nightmare. They’re every dictators wet dream. This is why Bitcoin matters. Bitcoin = freedom.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by atlasunshrugged on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:42AM (#35245954)
Couldn't you sub cash for Bitcoin here and have it make just as much sense? Also, isn't bitcoin highly traceable, especially for a sophisticated state actor?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by v4dok on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:49AM (#35246054)
An economy run on Bitcoin is an absolute dystopia. You reluinquish monetary control to a deflationary coin, being in the whim of Bitcoin whales. People who advocate for it, either are whales or they are stupid.

Ask south europe how well it worked for them having no power over their monetary policy.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by shagymoe on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:10AM (#35246345)
Continuing this charade of "the government and banks are competent at monetary control" is more stupid. Inflation is theft.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by krferriter on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:23AM (#35246571)
The USD and Euro are managed by central banks much better at monetary policy than random rich people trying to manipulate an asset market (like those for cryptocurrencies) because they have an untreated gambling addiction. The idea that US Dollars are less stable and reliable in terms of price trends over the long term than cryptocurrencies is just ridiculous. Small amounts of inflation is good for the economy. It incentivizes people to put their money stashes back into productive use, instead of just keeping it sealed in a box.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by shagymoe on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:27AM (#35246651)
Bitcoin != cryptocurrencies. You might as well be comparing dollars and beanie babies. Define "much better" and for who because they're very clearly, very bad at monetary policy.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by enumjorge on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:25AM (#35246600)
If Bitcoin had a history of stability your point would have more weight, but as it stands I don’t know how people can present it as a viable alternative with a straight face. Banks are having a crisis—-Bitcoin seems to have at least one every year.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by shagymoe on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:28AM (#35246676)
If Bitcoin were the default currency, the value would not fluctuate, it would just slowly rise. Responsible savers would be rewarded. Irresponsible risk takers would generally be punished.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by throwaway173738 on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:44AM (#35246923)
You mean the people who bought in early would benefit.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by shagymoe on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:54AM (#35247077)
Undeniably, in the beginning, yes. Eventually it would be distributed more evenly as those people spend or die. We already have billionaires and the difference is that, with the current system, their money will not become distributed. They fail and then the government prints more to rescue them or they just print it and give it to them directly to "prime the economy". i.e. The Cantillion effect.

The people should control the money and that's only possible with Bitcoin.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by AlexandrB on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:20AM (#35247493)
> Undeniably, in the beginning, yes. Eventually it would be distributed more evenly as those people spend or die. We already have billionaires and the difference is that, with the current system, their money will not become distributed.

Why would a bitcoin billionaire's money be distributed more than a traditional billionaire's? At least a traditional billionaire will invest his fortune in assets like stocks and thus help fund some innovative companies to protect his fortune from inflation. The bitcoin billionaire can just hold his fortune in bitcoin forever since it's deflationary.

Every time I see a bitcoin backer talk about finance, the things said fly in the face of Econ 101 and basic common sense. I guess I "just don't get it".

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by shagymoe on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @12:20PM (#35248384)
Econ 101 seems to have a failing end game. Bitcoin gets distributed because, since you can't make more, you don't get anything for free. You spend it and it goes somewhere else. Maybe you get it back if you add value, but you don't get it back just because you're part of a ruling class that gets free money printed by the government and handed to you because "you will add value to the world". That last assertion is demonstrably untrue in many cases. They fail, we bail them out. Again.

Edit: Modern economics seems to require more mental gymnastics than a Bitcoin standard. We invent things no one really understands until the rug gets pulled one day and the scam become clear. Then we move on to the next scam. Financial instruments seem to be designed to fool the common man into believing we need these complications while what's really happening is that someone is simply stealing money until something breaks and we bail them out.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by AlexandrB on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:15AM (#35247411)
If we define "theft" this broadly then employment is theft, taxes are theft, interest on loans is theft, etc. Meanwhile deflation favours early adopters forever, and while you could chide me for "missing the boat" that doesn't really work, morally, for people not yet born.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by scottiebarnes on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @12:22PM (#35248413)
> Meanwhile deflation favours early adopters forever, and while you could chide me for "missing the boat" that doesn't really work, morally, for people not yet born.

The deflationary model favors savers over consumers, giving benefit back to people who are willing be patient by forgoing immediate consumption.

You seem concerned that early adopters stand to gain disproportionately from mass adoption. Well, what outcome would you prefer and how would we get there?

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by v4dok on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:14PM (#35254786)
This is myopic beyond reason. Inflation is now a thing so you care about it. The real problem lies in things that most western countries never had to deal with. What do you do when your country is not good at creating high-value products and services that you can sell to a premium to the rest of the world? What China did, you make cheap stuff. How do you make cheap stuff? You print more money and you devalue your currency. Inflation will make sure you make what you can in-house cheap enough. Now you can export it cheap as well.

This can't work with bitcoin. If your country can't export things in a premium you are F'ed. You can't print money to stimulate demand for local goods, your only option is to violently reduce the average quality of life enough that you will be wiling to work for less. Printing money creates inflation but it can also kick a positive spiral of demand/supply. While "austerity" has been shown to just make the problem worse by gutting demand in general

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by nkuttler on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:50AM (#35244969)
> I think this crisis is the strongest yet reason to push for CBDCs as only a central bank can fully guarantee a deposit

This makes zero sense. A CBDC doesn't have a stronger "guarantee" than normal central bank money, yet it has all kinds of negatives like total surveillance and control.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by mejutoco on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:10AM (#35245616)
Exactly. And regarding

> only a central bank can fully guarantee a deposit

The buck stops at the government, as we are seeing with changing laws to allow Credit Suisse acquisition or by Biden and European representatives statements abou "doing whatever is needed" or similar.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by HWR_14 on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:21AM (#35245738)
Just to be clear, those are two different things. The Biden administration's response is using powers granted to the executive branch explicitly to save banks. The Swiss government seems to be modifying their laws to save CS (by getting it acquired).
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by jpmattia on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:35AM (#35246788)
> The buck stops at the government, as we are seeing with changing laws...

Not to mention the majority party in the US House is threatening default.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by guessbest on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:23AM (#35247534)
The party in the House always threatens to not raise the debt ceiling if the POTUS is of a different party. It has been like this for decades.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by ddulaney on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:32AM (#35247660)
It didn't really happen as much over the last 4 years.

As they say, the deficit hawk is a seasonal bird.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by danaris on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @01:09PM (#35249188)
I think if you actually look at the history of this, you'll find that it's almost always the Republicans who threaten not to raise the debt ceiling.

Certainly, all the notable debt ceiling crises listed here[0] were instigated by Republican Congresses.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt_ceiling

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by jjeaff on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:42PM (#35254469)
No, it's specifically the Republican party that threatens to default on the debt ceiling if the president is a Democrat.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:55AM (#35245001)
>CBDC: If you want safe custody of your money.

Not safe from the moralizing pricks (of which there is a surplus in our midst) who the executive or legislature will inevitably try to cozy up to by stealing my money on the basis of some attribute or box that I check.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by roenxi on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @07:59AM (#35245031)
I don't think you're actually proposing anything with that CBDC statement - CBDC doesn't imply any particular policies or mechanisms. It is a non-phrase without a concrete proposal. What exactly is the central bank supposed to do here?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by pnut on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:26AM (#35245244)
After some internet searching, apparently CBDC means "Central Bank Digital Currency"

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/central-bank-digital-cu...

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by retube on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:26AM (#35245245)
central banks could offer 100% guaranteed deposit facilities without a CBDC.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by thwayunion on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:37AM (#35245331)
I'm so confused by what role a CBDC is even supposed to play... why would the government establish a new currency pegged 1:1 to its existing currency? Why not just... allow normal Americans to keep deposits at federal reserve banks?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by maxwell on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @08:47AM (#35245418)
CBDCs are programmable: whoever controls the CBDC can decide where it is or isn't spent.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by retube on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:30AM (#35245831)
Well they could, but actual implementation would be via an intermediary commercial bank that held it's deposits with the Fed. Central banks don't want to have to deal with retail customers. But the result is the same.
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by clarge1120 on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:24AM (#35245767)
The biggest challenge facing CBDCs (Central Bank control of Digital Currencies) is that any laws or regulations concerning them can be changed at anytime, without the consent of the governed.

See Credit Suisse.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by amelius on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @09:32AM (#35245847)
Good analysis.

Similarly, the App Store mixes "Store" with "Content filter". We should be able to choose both independently.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by hanniabu on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:01AM (#35246207)
> CBDC: If you want safe custody of your money.

That's cash. CBDC is if you want no control over your money. At the flip of the switch you can be put on a denial of service list. Except unlike when PayPal does it, you can't just switch providers.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by msm_ on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:14AM (#35246394)
If you don't trust your government, how is it different than being arrested at the flip of the switch?
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by hanniabu on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @04:24PM (#35251991)
Accessibility
Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by hkt on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:37AM (#35246828)
> CBDC: If you want safe custody of your money.

> Bank: If you want to lend your money in return for a yield. And as with any lending, you take the risk of a borrower defaulting.

Ideally, depositors in a CBDC would also get at minimum the central bank rate.

Re:Bank Failures Come in Waves by GenericDev on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @04:20PM (#35251946)
Not to disparage the poster, but these type of comments always come across to me as astro-turfing.

At no point has anyone been advocating for a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) and furthermore the only people who stand to gain from this are the powers that be. I'm vehemently against a CBDC purely because I like to play a thought experiment if I were from the 18th century and landed in the present day, how hard would it be for me to engage with society. A CBDC is 100% the anti-thesis to creating and supporting people.

In short, boo to OP, I doubt their legitimacy.