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Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by simplotek on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @11:33AM (#35153174)
> The scale of absurdity was difficult to measure with that one.

I have been told that one FANG which recently underwent a firing round barely took a break from their hiring rounds, and already started sending emails asking for volunteers for interviews even to teams which have just been decimated.

One more story for the absurdity bucket.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by duxup on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @11:59AM (#35153641)
Not too surprising as the hiring people industrial complex that exists some places seem to exist / operate for it's own purposes sometimes.

It's not that way everywhere but man when you run into it, crazy.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by roguas on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @12:32PM (#35154169)
They did that to me themselves. They have festered the "hiring industrial complex" to outcompete for talent. Now this whole thing has to stay alive. They have to fire. Maybe the news about it will be enough, cause we also plan on hiring back.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by eastbound on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:20PM (#35157822)
Can you just be on “fired leave”? Seems unnecessary to deprovision all the systems. I’m sure SAP can create a workflow for that and upsell it to the hiring industrial complex.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by giraffe_lady on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @12:29PM (#35154109)
It makes sense when you view it not as a strict immediate cost cutting measure but just a way to scare & threaten workers.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by hzay on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @12:49PM (#35154431)
It makes sense if you think of this as pruning dead weight while also getting in fresh inflow of talented people (some of whom will inevitably not work out later).
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by snozolli on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @02:33PM (#35156340)
Why is management hiring people who turn out to be "dead weight"? Particularly with the ludicrous interview cycle employed by big tech companies these days?

It's a failure of management to hire correctly and/or manage and develop people. Management is broken and incompetent and relentlessly scapegoats those below them.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by skeeter2020 on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:06PM (#35157602)
Hiring is really hard. I try to be very selective, use work-like assessments and wait until it's painful to add headcount, but I also need to go fast enough to keep devs interested and not waste their time, and interviews at best are only a very rough proxy-indicator of what the future looks like. Firing is even harder.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by cpitman on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:07PM (#35157615)
If you have a method for hiring exactly the right people, that those people will put up with (ie a process that filters out "dead weight" but does not filter out high performers), then that is a startup right there. But overall, no one has magical hiring process that doesn't involve finding out actual performance after they start.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by narwally on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:28PM (#35157961)
Yep, google published a bunch of research about their hiring processes and it basically said "we've tried everything and nothing works... anybody else have any ideas?"
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by midoridensha on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @09:09PM (#35162284)
Yet they continue their leetcode interview process...
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by snozolli on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @11:05PM (#35163256)
If you have a method for hiring exactly the right people, that those people will put up with

Yeah, hire and then show actual managerial skill. If you still can't get the performance you need, then fire them. Tech hiring culture has become completely bananas and it wastes insane amounts of resources.

Tech management in the US 1) can't hire competently, 2) can't lead, 3) can't develop those under them and 4) can't man up and fire the employees they mistakenly hired and failed to lead.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by smachiz on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @01:59PM (#35172235)
That's not just tech. It's everywhere.

It's _really_ hard to hire good people consistently.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by coredog64 on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @11:55PM (#35163648)
Griggs vs Duke Power might like a word.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by brewdad on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:08PM (#35157632)
Plenty of terrible employees interview well. Many potentially great employees don't interview well.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by hd95489 on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @05:36PM (#35159164)
Terrible employees have lots of practice
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by snozolli on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @11:03PM (#35163239)
So fire them. It's bizarre that companies appear to think that you should do cargo cult interviewing, sometimes multiple rounds with months of waiting around, then hire people, fail to lead or develop them, then just dump them en masse.

Hire them and if you can't get the performance you need, then you due them. Alternatively, hire them as contract-to-hire if your head of HR has conditioned you to be terrified of doing what you're allowed to do in the US.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by kamaal on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @12:23AM (#35163844)
>>Why is management hiring people who turn out to be "dead weight"?

People are rarely ever dead weight. Products and services most certainly are. Products/Projects etc fail for a variety of reasons, and it can often be hard to anticipate if they will. When you are building them you need the top people to build it for you. If the product fails, you now have people you have to pay for running the product that doesn't earn you money. Now you make a loss.

While you did hire the top people, the product failed and now you don't need them. Keeping them around costs lots of money and, their work, even if high quality hasn't given much profits.

It is then you have to let go people.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by snozolli on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @12:26AM (#35163871)
If the product fails, you now have people you have to pay for product that doesn't earn you money. Now you make a loss.

Sounds like capitalism to me. Better get to work developing new projects and products to stem that loss.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by kamaal on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @01:35AM (#35164318)
>>Better get to work developing new projects and products to stem that loss.

Yes.

The road to progress in any system involves being known as someone who initiates new order of things. And always remember this. Its the new projects, and initiatives that get most of the resources because people want to see them win.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by hzay on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:23AM (#35164989)
Hiring is not a perfectly solved problem, so you should cut whoever you're accusing some slack. Also, making the relationship work is a two-way responsibility, not just that of the management.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by ferrumfist on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:12PM (#35157696)
> pruning dead weight

That wasn't my experience with the current layoffs at big tech. There was no effort to find positions for the engineers who performed well in the previous year(s). They just cut some orgs by the hundreds (I was in a call with 350+ other devs, many of whom are far smarter and more experienced devs than myself).

They just started cutting "weight" at some point, the "dead" adjective was dropped during the previous rounds of layoffs.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by fidgewidge on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @06:39PM (#35160139)
Smart + experienced != productive and valuable. It's possible to be good at your job and also dead weight. Motivation matters.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by TheBozzCL on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @01:27PM (#35155092)
Last week, I was contacted by recruiters from two separate high-profile companies that have recently fired people. Like I would even entertain joining them only to be first in line to the chopping block.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by omoikane on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @01:58PM (#35155649)
Maybe the thinking is "they just got rid of a bunch of people, so they are not going to do that again soon."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by cortoreblore on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:21PM (#35157834)
What makes you believe you’re not 1st on the chopping block at your existing company? There are no guarantees either way.
Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by i-use-nixos-btw on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @08:41PM (#35161997)
No guarantees, but the chances are different.

Say you’ve been working somewhere for 5 years and have the opportunity to move to a company - and you know both companies are laying people off at some point soon.

In your current company, maintaining your position requires no training and negligible HR resource. The question of your capability to perform the job you’re given would hopefully not be under question (otherwise good going for keeping that gig up for 5 years). Your team is not a blue sky project (otherwise shame on management for keeping that gig up for 5 years). Making you redundant will cost the company severance, and if it’s a structural issue you could be moved into another team. Dropping you would be a genuinely hard decision.

The new company barely know you and have to expend resources just to integrate you, and expend nothing to drop you.

I know which one I’d pick.

Granted, it’s a false premise: perhaps the new company is more resilient than your current company, for example. However, if the odds are unknown - and in most cases they aren’t known in any reliable way - then I may as well treat them as if the odds are balanced.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by kamaal on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @12:18AM (#35163801)
If the firing was on the basis of cutting out top paid employees, it absolutely makes sense to now fill those positions with newer ones whom you can pay less.

Nothing absurd here.

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by cutemonster on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @05:10PM (#35174763)
Does such things happen? Thinking about all knowledge that is lost

Maybe top paid management is simpler to replace?

I wonder if the managers who will become individual contributors again, will be paid the same or less

Re:Meta to Layoff 10k Employees by isakkeyten on Thursday March 16, 2023 @10:41AM (#35182646)
I was once contacted for an interview by the company I was leaving during my notice period :)