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Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by MrBuddyCasino on Monday March 13, 2023 @04:49AM (#35132885)

    Like it or not, the West generally is in a state of decline.
"In 2000, Europe had 41 of the biggest 100 companies. Now it only has 15. A 63% decline in just two decades. The Economist says the "most striking" reason is the lack of successful startups.

63% declines are something you can't repeat too many times without creating the kind of situation historians give names to. Two more such periods, and Europe only has 2 of the top 100 companies."

https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1400777576965185539

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by raverbashing on Monday March 13, 2023 @05:14AM (#35133082)
I'm not sure this is a very good measure. It is worrying, for sure, but the top 100 is cramped

I'd argue the total marketing cap of top-500 might be a better measure. Surely it has gone down but maybe by less

Also China's growth was the exceptional thing here

(but yeah European management of those classic big companies fumbled a lot)

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by MrBuddyCasino on Monday March 13, 2023 @05:23AM (#35133154)
The problem is not that big corporations fail - they inevitably will and they arguably should. The problem is that there are no new ones, or at least not enough to make up for the losses.
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by ogogmad on Monday March 13, 2023 @05:37AM (#35133287)
Does anyone think they know the cause?
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by brabel on Monday March 13, 2023 @08:08AM (#35134562)
Let me try: once you've reached a certain level of development, your priorities change. You don't care anymore about making more money than everyone else, you care about living a life you enjoy, even if that means you're no longer number 1 on something.

Other countries that are still on the first phase and do prioritize beating everyone else, to the detriment of their health and personal life, will start overtaking you... with time, they too will start giving some importance to a healthy life and will start falling behind (China may already have reached that point, as we now see some other Asian countries taking some pieces of the cake - helped no doubt by the West's antagony to China and its authoritarian government)... and so the cycle continues...

The countries that reach the top level in qualify of life, like USA, Australia and most of Europe, tend to still stay quite wealthy, it seems... as they still have a highly educated population capable of creating value for the country and their fellow citizens... so this story seems to be going well so far.

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by eecc on Monday March 13, 2023 @08:21AM (#35134705)
Hmm, not so sure about that. You don't need to lose your health while inventing and riding the waves of progress.

I tend to blame myopic capitalistic class, more interested in punishing trade unions, looking for '800s production organization before anything else.

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by OnuRC on Monday March 13, 2023 @09:37AM (#35135548)
Probably real answer is aging.
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by nradov on Monday March 13, 2023 @09:07AM (#35135167)
The lack of any major threat since 1991 has allowed them the political luxury of being able to make policy decisions based on ideology rather than objective reality. The Russian invasion of Ukraine and resulting energy crisis has demonstrated the failure of that approach so now they have to pivot. Expect a new wave of innovation led by the energy and defense sectors.
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by MrBuddyCasino on Monday March 13, 2023 @10:51AM (#35136476)
I've talked to people involved in energy/climate/ESG policy decision making. I wouldn't get my hopes up. Their religion (some might call it ideology) overshadows everything.
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by mejutoco on Monday March 13, 2023 @12:58PM (#35138585)
The green ones are being attracted to the US already.
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by WeylandYutani on Monday March 13, 2023 @04:03PM (#35141681)
Until a Republican gets in power again. If we've learned anything from Trump it's that America is not as politically stable as it seemed.
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by raverbashing on Monday March 13, 2023 @05:36AM (#35133264)
Yes, however there are a couple of spin-offs and rearrangements that happen before the "main company" failing

Even in the case of Philips it spun off NXP (which is not going great neither to be fair), ASML, Signify (lightning business etc)

Siemens also dug their own hole in severe mismanagement ("old people" running the show) and I think there's not much more left there

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by ChuckNorris89 on Monday March 13, 2023 @08:47AM (#35134979)
>NXP (which is not going great neither to be fair)

Out of curiosity, why do you think that?

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by raverbashing on Monday March 13, 2023 @09:06AM (#35135157)
I stand corrected, maybe I had read a slightly older FY results https://media.nxp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/nxp...

(though Qualcomm has aprox 3x the quarterly revenue)

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by ChuckNorris89 on Monday March 13, 2023 @10:19AM (#35136049)
QUALCOMM sells phone modems which is a much more lucrative business than NXP selling automotive chips and generic ARM microcontrollers.
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by raverbashing on Monday March 13, 2023 @12:10PM (#35137721)
Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by ChuckNorris89 on Monday March 13, 2023 @05:22AM (#35133145)
Market cap wise Europe looks equally worse. The market cap of the US top tech companies is greater than EU's tech sector combined. Ouch!

Europe's biggest tech companies leaders in the field are Airbus, SAP and ASML.

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by hef19898 on Monday March 13, 2023 @05:37AM (#35133276)
Market cap is, IMHO, not the best measure so. Revenue or market share seems a bit better. As an example, Japanese companies used to have huge market caps in the 90s, today not so much. Those companies still exist so, and are quite large players in their fields.

And to be honest, Google is more ad-tech then anything else, Netflix is entertainment. Amazon is, depending on how you measure it, 50% retail / logistics and 50% AWS. Which leaves MS and Apple as true tech companies, while Facebook is social media.

Retail, as in eCommerce, was ground breaking tech when Amazon started. Today, comparable tech is available from vendors like Shopify (web shops) and WiseTech (logistics and fulfillment). Social media was ground breaking when Facebook and MySpace came along, now it is more about selling ads then anything else. Streaming was ground breaking when YouTube and Netflix came around, now there are countless streaming services. And some of the older ones, looking at you Amazon, resembles traditional TV a lot. After all they sell ads now between streaming (FreeVee or what's it called) and broadcast new episodes on specific days, looking at you Amazon and Disney.

Re:Philips and the Death of Europe's Last Electronics Giant ... by geysersam on Monday March 13, 2023 @12:12PM (#35137786)
This measurement is relative. Does it indicate decline in Europe or development in Asia?

It's unreasonable to expect a region with 1/16 of the world population to have 4/10 of the largest companies in the long term.

Also, is "company size" really that good a measure of economic success? Seems like it could have to do with the local conditions encouraging smaller economic entities.