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Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by roody15 on Friday March 10, 2023 @08:53AM (#35094308)
Mircosoft's implementation of ChatGPT in Edge (Dev) is weak. They have really neutered its ability and length/number of queries you can ask it. It also tries to sprinkle in some web suggestions as well.

This is worrisome because I think mega corporations like Microsoft and Google want AI to just be a fun little tool for drafting emails and writing jokes and recipes. Any more powerful language constructions are too risky to their existing business models or too risky in terms of PR. People will just screenshot something the AI says philosophically and it will get retweeted and people will lose their mind.

I really hope a open source workable competitor to chatGPT emerges soon.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by v8xi on Friday March 10, 2023 @09:12AM (#35094475)
Would love it, too. But at this stage locking it up behind a corporate paywall is probably better IMO - at least until governments around the world are prepared to address a tsunami of misinformation, fraud, and abuse that these systems enable.
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by fwn on Friday March 10, 2023 @09:23AM (#35094607)
This really sounds like you wouldn't love it to be an open source workable competitor at all.

IMO it's not the task of governments to be prepared to address misinformation. It's an individual responsibility. This requires an educated civil society with the media literacy necessary to make a democracy work in the 21st century. It's an ongoing, aspirational project. ...and we can't wait until we think we're ready.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by felixgallo on Friday March 10, 2023 @09:49AM (#35094917)
This would be great, if it were only remotely feasible that an individual could ever have the tools and training to counterbalance entire industries of giant disinformation-focused billionaire corporations and governments with thousands of highly trained disinformation professionals using modern tooling, well-funded research departments, and increasingly deep data to spread disinformation.

There is no amount of 'media literacy' training (which, in practice, would have to be created and administered by public schools under the watchful eye of some of the selfsame disinformation purveyors, in some states) that will ever be up to the task.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by fwn on Friday March 10, 2023 @10:17AM (#35095370)
> There is no amount of 'media literacy' training (which, in practice, would have to be created and administered by public schools under the watchful eye of some of the selfsame disinformation purveyors, in some states) that will ever be up to the task.

Sometimes I feel that the skill level demanded for media literacy is set artificially high in order to force the conclusion that individuals are categorically incapable of judging their personal information environment. But that does not seem plausible to me.

I feel pretty savvy, and I wasn't trained in school. Almost no journalist or public figure has received formalized training in the way you describe.

And why would that be necessary, what would they teach beyond common sense? Do you have examples of large-scale disinformation campaigns that aren't sufficiently contextualized through regular mainstream media?

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by pydry on Friday March 10, 2023 @10:27AM (#35095533)
>IMO it's not the task of governments to be prepared to address misinformation.

The media wasnt perfect but they were better before the fairness doctrine was repealed.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by freejazz on Friday March 10, 2023 @10:32AM (#35095625)
> This requires an educated civil society

Do you think educated civil societies just spontaneously form, or is it because they are enabled through the government providing things like education (the best way to combat misinformation).

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by fwn on Friday March 10, 2023 @10:39AM (#35095745)
Imagine if the French - or the Founding Fathers - had waited for their populace to reach some artificially high and fundamentally undefined level of education before instituting democracy on the idea that democracy presupposes education. They would still be waiting today.

This would rightly be understood as a shallow hold-out.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by v8xi on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:20AM (#35096429)
Except you forget that when democracy was first unveiled only white, land-owning males could vote because they supposed that they were educated and self-interested enough to make good decisions. The founding fathers were well-known to not trust the public for making decisions and thats WHY we (in the USA) have laws written up and argued over by the House and Senate and not popular vote...
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by freejazz on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:27AM (#35096559)
Yeah, and democracy didn't just spontaneously appear - its the result of education and debates by educated people.
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by fwn on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:31PM (#35097795)
Yes, I know that argument. So I'm curious: Would you support the initial restriction to only white, land-owning males as reasonable? Do you think, for example, that US women's suffrage required women to be educated first?

And, as you seem to assume, this skepticism led to more indirect forms of democratic institutions: Would you argue against direct democratic institutions in the U.S. on the same basis?

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by freejazz on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:26AM (#35096542)
I think this really misses my point, and also is just factually wrong as the other poster responded.

>But people should always be assumed to be capable of judging their informational environment independently of formal education. Not to do so would be deeply paternalistic and infantilizing.

That's not the point. The question was "what can be done to combat misinformation" and my response was "education" which in the democracies that I'm aware of, is generally provided by the gov't. You are talking about something else entirely, and a bit pejoratively as well, which is ironic because you are talking about education but apparently completely missed the point.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by fwn on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:37PM (#35097915)
> The question was "what can be done to combat misinformation" and my response was "education"

No, the topic was that whether the thesis that technologies like ChatGPT enable misinformation is a reason to keep the technology unfree.

And in response to that topic it was me, not you, who introduced education. You then just added a loaded question designed to hint at a preexisting government.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by freejazz on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:59PM (#35098252)
Preexisting gov't? Where do you live? Most people here live under a gov't - why are you being this obtuse. Bizarre that you think you are in a position to state what my intent was when my last response to you was that you missed my point. So much for making an effort to understand.
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by v8xi on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:13AM (#35096312)
This really does not sound like you're familiar with the necessity of regulation at all.

Yes an individual should be media literate, just as corporations SHOULD practice fair competition and people should not invest their life savings in Ponzi schemes or kill one another. Unfortunately, maintaining a stable society in the real world requires governance. 16% of the world's population don't have electricity. How can you expect them to educate themselves about misinformation while technology beyond their comprehension is being weaponized against them?

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by fwn on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:21PM (#35097604)
This reply here is a great example of casually portraing something as factual which isn't much more than an opinion. It's not that opinionated replies are bad, it's bad when commenters use this to avoid actually reasoning or referencing anything substantial.

Just ask yourself: What could they mean by being familiar with "the necessity of regulation"? Like _any_ regulation? _Every_ regulation? The " necessity " of specific regulatory measures varies widely, depending on many different factors.

> Unfortunately, maintaining a stable society in the real world requires governance.

Yeah, I mean... how could someone not agree with the second part? ... but why would that be "unfortunate"?

Governance is such a broad human endeavor, even language is part of it, as are all the protocols, supply chains, standardizations etc. that make this conversation possible. Hardly unfortunate?

> Yes an individual should be media literate, just as corporations SHOULD practice fair competition and people should not invest their life savings in Ponzi schemes or kill one another.

I didn't say they, the people, should do something, I said we should do something. We should not, as in this debate, infantilize the population.

> 16% of the world's population don't have electricity. How can you expect them to educate themselves about misinformation while technology beyond their comprehension is being weaponized against them? That's the same argument for why indigenous people can't govern themselves without Western education. I'm not going to go there, and I certainly don't see the threat you are painting.

Misinformation is nothing new at all, and if you argue that social media is making a difference: Not only is that controversial, it assumes electricity - in a completely uncontroversial way. People will deal with misinformation today using the same tools they used to deal with misinformation yesterday: reason, critical thinking, etc.

There's no technical fix for this.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by ImprobableTruth on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:05PM (#35097280)
OpenAI has been giving this as their reason for years and nothing has happened even though powerful models were released open source.

Turns out that misinformation is already incredibly cheap to create and the bottleneck lies elsewhere.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by clarge1120 on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:42PM (#35097996)
> ... at least until governments around the world are prepared to address a tsunami of misinformation

The American system, as designed, is diametrically opposed to waiting for governments around the world to protect you from misinformation.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by practice9 on Friday March 10, 2023 @09:44AM (#35094867)
https://open-assistant.io are working on collecting a dataset and training an open source model comparable to chatGPT
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by toddmorey on Friday March 10, 2023 @09:58AM (#35095064)
Kind of maddening & ironic that we now need an open alternative to OpenAI, considering their original positioning.
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by x86x87 on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:04AM (#35096159)
Hear me out: OpenOpenAI!
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by hot_gril on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:18PM (#35097549)
or DanAI
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by matheusmoreira on Friday March 10, 2023 @10:28AM (#35095556)
We really need the power to run these things on our own computers with 0 restrictions. Not these bastardized corporation friendly versions.
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by LadyCailin on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:09AM (#35096240)
It requires 300GB of RAM apparently, not sure how you propose to make that work.
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by marcyb5st on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:37AM (#35096723)
And specialized hardware. Not sure how long an inference on CPU only will take, but I suspect it will crush usability.
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by matheusmoreira on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:39AM (#35096752)
Well, my laptop has 64 GB. It can't be that difficult.
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by pixl97 on Friday March 10, 2023 @04:45PM (#35101541)
This is one of those comments you can't tell if its sarcasm or not...
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by ojosilva on Sunday March 12, 2023 @06:55AM (#35118651)
We said the same thing, in one way or another, about indexing and searching the web -- privacy/anonymity, spam/seo, algorithms, bias, corporations.... So today one can build their own crawler and search engine with great opensource software, yet a vast majority is querying a web index through third parties as the computing power required (well, mostly storage and networking) remains brutal, and then all those nitty-picketty details about crawling one needs to painstakingly figure out.

Even if by Moore's law we get that great power in our own computers, enough to run a today's chatGPT clone, there will always be a commercial version that is 100x more awesome out there built by actors with immense compute power backed by rivers of corporate money.

Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by dev-3892 on Friday March 10, 2023 @02:34PM (#35099649)
everything the ai says is something the ai says philosphically
Re:Google dusts off the failed Google+ playbook to fight Cha... by yucky on Friday March 10, 2023 @03:43PM (#35100739)
You should see the version that the NSA uses :)