Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by cinntaile on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @07:06AM
(#34981423)
"I work for wolfSSL doing commercial curl support. If you need help to fix curl problems, fix your app's use of libcurl, add features to curl, fix curl bugs, optimize your curl use or libcurl education for your developers... Then I'm your man. Contact us!"
From his website. They wouldn't give him a full-time position if there wasn't enough to do.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by reisse on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @06:44AM
(#34981276)
It isn't a solved problem because standards are evolving. The most noticeable ones are related to encryption, but there are also HTTP2, WebSockets, QUIC and other protocols you need to speak on the web.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by mgaunard on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @07:13AM
(#34981486)
WebSocket isn't supported by curl.
HTTP 2/3 are mostly bad ideas (slightly less bad in the case of 3, but still overkill) pushed by Google to optimize an edge case no one but web browsers care about.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by mgaunard on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @07:10AM
(#34981455)
I have implemented many networking applications from Ethernet to application protocols. I am also particularly aware of how HTTP and all the related stack works.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by dagw on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @07:12AM
(#34981472)
how do open source maintainers make a living
Most who make a living out of it work on the project as part of their jobs at larger tech companies or universities. A few manage to start a company around that project and make a living selling various licenses and support. A tiny number manage to (at least temporarily) scrape together a living from donations.
For a large number of them however being an open source maintainer is an unpaid hobby they do on their evenings and weekends.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by markphip on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @07:03AM
(#34981398)
I think you are all overlooking the prevalence of libcurl
While the curl CLI is ubiquitous in our world, libcurl is embedded and used all over the place. Given that it has always been well maintained and enhanced I do not see a lot of reason to create alternatives or for someone to look to replace it.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by jabl on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @07:53AM
(#34981814)
I usually use curl. wget does have one feature that curl doesn't (or at least I'm aware of), namely recursive downloading. So you can easily somewhat download an entire site.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by mgaunard on Saturday March 04, 2023 @06:51AM
(#35020190)
I already explained, what's better is what fits your needs exactly.
Without knowing your requirements it would be difficult to say.
Say for example your main concern is latency, you only need support for MTU-sized payloads, you want ro guarantee that the TCP connection is always established ahead of time and your requests always follow the same pattern with a few bytes to tweak.
You can easily write something that can do those things much better than curl in a couple of hours.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by allarm on Thursday March 09, 2023 @10:24PM
(#35090027)
Oh right, and if your need is to open a specific site only, your best choice would be to write your own browser heavily optimized just for this particular site, instead of using Chrome. Nonsense.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by inglor_cz on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @08:42AM
(#34982274)
"It's just one HTTP client. There are better ones."
Why don't you stop being intentionally vague and tell us which ones, and what makes them better?
Because if there is something better than curl, with its enormous scope in protocols and platforms, and free of charge to boot, I would surely like to know.
Curl's installed base is enormous. If everyone who uses curl had to switch to some other solution tomorrow, that would mean millions of developer hours wasted. If anything, the author of curl should be paid more.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by petepete on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @06:55AM
(#34981346)
I immediately recognised the Cambridge Audio subwoofer under the desk. I had the same set on my PC from about 1998-1999 along with an Aureal Vortex. I loved that setup.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by haunter on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @06:58AM
(#34981360)
> I have thought about a HDMI/keyboard switch to allow me more easily switch between my different spare computers into the left “backup screen” to make it a lesser hassle to alter between those machines, but I haven’t yet decided nor found a product that would be suitable.
Personally I love the Level 1 KVMs but they only do DisplayPort now.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @07:46AM
(#34981755)
I work from home and every day I switch my cables to my work computer which takes 10 seconds. I don't want to pay $300 to shave 20 seconds off of my day.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by RamblingCTO on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @07:25AM
(#34981585)
Pretty chaotic for my taste! I find that having clutter on my desktop distracts me and makes me feel uneasy. I'm wondering what the difference between Daniel and me is. Could it just be a personality trait?
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by sph on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @08:17AM
(#34982035)
I too like a clean desk. But a clean desk doesn't stay that for long. So all clean desk lovers like me tend to have a cluttered desk.
The clean desks you see in pictures are obviously staged, or maybe people are really able to do serious work without ever putting a pen, or a cable, or a phone, or a mug on, sooner or later.
It's like doing the dishes. One of the things I hate the most in life, because you clean stuff so you can dirty it later. A clean desk is one that nobody uses, while your favourite cup is always in the washer.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by RamblingCTO on Saturday March 04, 2023 @09:43AM
(#35021040)
Right, it's a constant process of getting messy and cleaning it up again. Speaking of which, brb ... cleaning my desk now haha. But the main difference is: I have my keyboard, mouse, closed macbook, a plant, and a big curved ultra-wide monitor on my desk. The rest is temporary clutter. Daniels desk however is full of "full-time tenants". I guess that's the difference.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by RamblingCTO on Saturday March 04, 2023 @09:41AM
(#35021027)
How is my job my personality? Lol ... I do code a lot in my free time, started coding at 14 years old and I contribute to open source as well. Pretty closed minded thinking to be honest.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by sdfgsdfgsert4s5 on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @09:53AM
(#34983035)
the difference is simple: this guy got serious work done while you've probably achieved nothing and focus on having a clean desk and judging others by it.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by fwlr on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @08:22AM
(#34982085)
IKEA was originally a Swedish company and still does their design in Sweden, so perhaps it’s not surprising that a homemade Swedish desk looks a lot like an IKEA desk.
Re:Daniel Stenberg and the home of curl in Stockholm, Sweden
by dagw on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @08:58AM
(#34982438)
IKEA doesn't have a 3 meter desk last time I checked. I'm guessing he bought a 3 meter wood counter top and screwed IKEA desk legs to it. That's what I did at least.
Thanks Daniel!
It's just one HTTP client. There are better ones.
https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/10/15/curl-installations-pe...
But it should be a solved problem by now. No need for continuous full-time work.
Probably not full-time, but some software are never done
From his website. They wouldn't give him a full-time position if there wasn't enough to do.
HTTP 2/3 are mostly bad ideas (slightly less bad in the case of 3, but still overkill) pushed by Google to optimize an edge case no one but web browsers care about.
curl doesn't fully support HTTP 3 regardless.
Not yet in command-line, but libcurl has support. Besides, that's the task to work on full-time :)
https://curl.se/docs/websocket.html
> to optimize an edge case no one but web browsers care about.
I'd argue there are no reasonable use-cases for HTTP except web browsers.
Every time comments like yours come up I'm just thinking "yeah, the fucker have no idea how much handling of edge cases comes up with libs like that"
So your thinking appears to be inaccurate.
Most who make a living out of it work on the project as part of their jobs at larger tech companies or universities. A few manage to start a company around that project and make a living selling various licenses and support. A tiny number manage to (at least temporarily) scrape together a living from donations.
For a large number of them however being an open source maintainer is an unpaid hobby they do on their evenings and weekends.
https://un.curl.dev/money
I wish I had known this before.
However I mostly use wget from shell, and since I mostly work with python aiohttp/standard library/just writing the request on the socket.
While the curl CLI is ubiquitous in our world, libcurl is embedded and used all over the place. Given that it has always been well maintained and enhanced I do not see a lot of reason to create alternatives or for someone to look to replace it.
curl supports 28 transfer protocols [1]
> There are better ones.
curl has 60 language bindings, runs on 89 operating systems across 24 CPU architectures [1]
So what is that mythical better client (that only does HTTP)?
[1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2022/11/25/89-operating-systems
And what happens when I need something more, or something else? I need to find a different "better client"?
But usually curl.
Without knowing your requirements it would be difficult to say.
Say for example your main concern is latency, you only need support for MTU-sized payloads, you want ro guarantee that the TCP connection is always established ahead of time and your requests always follow the same pattern with a few bytes to tweak.
You can easily write something that can do those things much better than curl in a couple of hours.
cURL isn't a HTTP client.
It's a command line tool and library for transferring data with URLs :-)
Why don't you stop being intentionally vague and tell us which ones, and what makes them better?
Because if there is something better than curl, with its enormous scope in protocols and platforms, and free of charge to boot, I would surely like to know.
Curl's installed base is enormous. If everyone who uses curl had to switch to some other solution tomorrow, that would mean millions of developer hours wasted. If anything, the author of curl should be paid more.
https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjgzWDEwMjQ=/z/djQAAOSwtgNeUSYW/$...
Personally I love the Level 1 KVMs but they only do DisplayPort now.
https://store.level1techs.com/search?q=kvm
I have this 2 monitor 2 PC one https://store.level1techs.com/products/14-kvm-switch-dual-mo...
Still the KVM market is “all over the space” both in available configs and actual build quality too.
It would be extremely niche but an open source modular KVM is a dream of mine.
I'm hoping to chain it to a dock station so I can easily switch between a laptop and a desktop, using the same monitors/ peripherals.
The clean desks you see in pictures are obviously staged, or maybe people are really able to do serious work without ever putting a pen, or a cable, or a phone, or a mug on, sooner or later.
It's like doing the dishes. One of the things I hate the most in life, because you clean stuff so you can dirty it later. A clean desk is one that nobody uses, while your favourite cup is always in the washer.
https://www.pinterest.ch/pin/305048574748887722/
There's a working desk, and there's the work that's being produced there. They don't have to have the same amount of structure.
The fact that you took offense to my post rather than seeing it as a benign observation says a lot more about you than it does me.
Hmmmm :).