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Re:Why Sat Is Hard by temporal828 on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:18AM (#34944185)
It's pretty damn clear from the context of complexity theory that this is about boolean satisfiability. Not every piece of content needs to be spoon fed. That is what text books are for.

And as stated in the article: "This post is my attempt at an explanation. It assumes some familiarity with the space" The audience is simply not beginners.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by 100721 on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:32AM (#34944262)
There are many, many people on here who do not have the slightest clue what complexity theory even is.

Let's try to educate more and condescend less.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by temporal828 on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:37AM (#34944284)
Then maybe go read one of the many introductions on the topic? Not every blog post has to start at the beginning to be interesting here. There is nothing condescending about not starting every piece of technical writing from grade school arithmetic and the author makes it very clear who the audience for the post is.
Re:Why Sat Is Hard by doctor_eval on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:42AM (#34944299)
The first sentence is literally, “An introductory post about complexity theory” but then goes on to assume we know about complexity theory.

The author has the right to write whatever they want, however they want, and they owe us nothing.

But your outburst when someone simply asks wtf, is nonsensical.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by jasode on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:17AM (#34944449)
>The first sentence is literally, “An introductory post about complexity theory” but then goes on to assume we know about complexity theory.

I think the confusion is that the author is using "an introductory post" as a synonym for "my first post". In this meaning, "introductory"=="opening/initial/first".

But some readers interpreted "introductory" as an ExplainLikeIAm5 tutorial from basic principles.

The "this is my first post in a timeline" interpretation makes more sense when you see that all his previous blog posts were not about NP complexity : https://matklad.github.io/

This first introductory post about NP complexity also implies a planned series of future followup posts.

When browsing his past blog posts on other random topics, it seems that many assume the reader has an existing intermediate-to-advanced background on the subject.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by temporal828 on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:46AM (#34944319)
I interpreted "introductory post" to mean that it is introductory within the blog and possibly a lead in to further articles as the author hasn't written on the topic before. Not that it is necessarily an introduction to the topic.

People on this site are so full of themselves thinking that random technical bloggers on the internet have to satisfy some unwritten Hacker News style manual.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by doctor_eval on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:07AM (#34944402)
Really we are just being curious. I like articles that talk about computational complexity, I wanted to understand it. But there was literally no hook for me to hold onto. I didn’t even know what to search for. SAT is such a common acronym.

The blogger owes us nothing. You’re the one telling us that we should already have known. Maybe instead of criticising us, you could have helped us?

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by groestl on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:32AM (#34944503)
> But there was literally no hook for me to hold onto

Ahm, from the text: "Boolean satisfiability, or SAT is a decision problem where an input is a boolean formula like [...]"

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by doctor_eval on Sunday February 26, 2023 @07:57AM (#34945161)
Yeah but it appears ½ way down. I didn’t make it that far because I had no context.
Re:Why Sat Is Hard by temporal828 on Sunday February 26, 2023 @11:43AM (#34946900)
> Maybe instead of criticising us, you could have helped us.

I mean, I did? While the reply was brusque I did name what the topic was about: boolean satisfiability, "It's pretty damn clear from the context of complexity theory that this is about boolean satisfiability."

The comment I replied to on the other hand was not constructive at all.

This is a link aggregator site and not an editorial site, the content linked to is varied and is not going to meet a single standard, or this site will become monotonous very quickly. I don't even click or read the majority of links here because they don't sound that interesting to me, which is fine. Not everything has to be aimed at the beginner or a particular audience.

When slightly less accessible content or just personally uninteresting content is posted I don't see how a content free snarky comment is at all constructive.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by 13of40 on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:39AM (#34944289)
This is a perfect use case for hyperlinks.
Re:Why Sat Is Hard by Dalewyn on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:30AM (#34944252)
A link/title should be informative and useful with no prerequisites.

Personally, I thought this was something to do with satelites.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by Wildgoose on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:59AM (#34944361)
I'm sorry, but on a tech site full of people working in IT, I genuinely think this is obviously about Boolean Satisfiability. There has to be a minimum standard of expected understanding - e.g. "Rust" on this site is unlikely to be about corrosion.
Re:Why Sat Is Hard by imadethis on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:10AM (#34944411)
And as a person working in tech for the past 10 years, I had never heard of Boolean Satisfiability let alone SAT until I read through the comments on the post and the linked Wiki page. I would suggest that this topic is not as universal as you think it is.
Re:Why Sat Is Hard by doctor_eval on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:12AM (#34944424)
Pretty sure if they’d used the term “Boolean satisfiability” even once, we would have been able to work it out.

But SAT could mean a million things and if you’re not using this stuff on a daily basis then it’s simply non obvious.

It’s not the authors fault, they can write what they want. what’s pissing me off is the utterly unhelpful attitude of people responding to questions about wtf the guy is talking about.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by bubblethink on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:22AM (#34944466)
>Pretty sure if they’d used the term “Boolean satisfiability”

It is obviously used in the text, just not in the title.

This random digression doesn't add anything to the topic. If the parent of this thread had posted "What is SAT ?" instead of the rubbish snark, someone would have replied, "Boolean Satisfiability". End of story. When did expressing one's ignorance become cool ? The OP (and others) could have grepped the article, or even just smashed a few keys in google, such as "sat np", and would have got the answer.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by Dalewyn on Sunday February 26, 2023 @09:17PM (#34952166)
Nothing is more ignorant than being willfully ignorant of the fact you aren't making sense to your audience.

"You" in reference to the people posting these things here at HN, not the article author. We aren't the article author's audience, so he has every right to ignore our needs. Whoever posts these things here, though? Their audience is us, and he needs to try and make sense of himself.

Just add "(Boolean SATisfiability)" after "SAT" and everything would have been fine. It's simply good practice to always explain the first use of an acronym anyway.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by stavros on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:13AM (#34944428)
Still, a title of "why boolean satisfiability is hard" would eliminate the confusion without any downsides.
Re:Why Sat Is Hard by MikeDelta on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:38AM (#34944537)
Articles need to be aimed properly at the audience. Is it beginners or experts?

It ir is not for beginners, then why start explaining Big O notation and SAT with some pseudocode?

In my opinion, the article should explain what sat stands for because it is aimed at relative beginners.

On a note: my take on the community here is that in general nobidy here wants to be spoon-fed or be insulted if they ask what an abbreviation stands for. What they want is properly written articles so that they can investigate further, and a discussion with the community.

There are so many specialists reading HN and I am amazed at the level of knowledge and experience in the replies sometimes. They don't talk with snobbery about that users should read text books and not bother because they are not part of the select inner circle. Instead, they help out and educate.

That is what makes HN great.

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by dusted on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:45AM (#34944571)
It's pretty damn clear if you have any idea what SAT and complexity theory is (which I don't), the DO eventually get around to mentioning in passing that SAT (the word in the headline, mind you) is short satisfiability, but look where..

I can't comment on the contents of the article itself, I know nothing about the subject, I only mentioned my frustration that, as someone who dares explore links on the Internet, even if they can't extrapolate the subject from the headline (the audacity, I know), it's impossible from the first paragraphs of that text to even find out what kind of subject we're talking about here.. And the SAT word, well, for me, that's what tripped me..

Look at this random article for comparison http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~lalla/373s16/notes/CSAT2SAT.pdf

They explain it in the third sentence, and they told what SAT meant _BEFORE_ they used it for the first time, not half a dense page further down in passing.

Sure, this is putting my ignorance on display, but I'm not going to apologize for not knowing about every subject in the corpus of human knowledge..

Re:Why Sat Is Hard by jxf on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:51AM (#34944595)
You don't know that the article is about complexity theory until you click through it, so the OP's point about the ambiguity stands. The title could be better.
Re:Why Sat Is Hard by albertopv on Sunday February 26, 2023 @06:54AM (#34944859)
Can we agree title alone is not so clear and maybe (I repeat, maybe) a bit clickbait?
Re:Why Sat Is Hard by hinkley on Sunday February 26, 2023 @01:55PM (#34948221)
“hard” is not a word invented by the Optimization community. Lots of difficult topics get posted here that have nothing to do with NP completeness.