News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Saturday February 25, 2023 @03:38PM (#34940221)
You link to the video, but (as I can’t watch a video right now) can you quote (and explain) the “unhinged racism”?
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by suprjami on Saturday February 25, 2023 @03:52PM (#34940334)
You can watch in the YouTube app with no volume and captions turned on, it's just like reading.

Or you could read the article which quotes a couple of things.

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by shrimp_emoji on Saturday February 25, 2023 @04:38PM (#34940732)
He is shocked that about 47% of black Americans polled allegedly responded to the question "Is it okay to be white?" with either "Not sure" or "No" (roughly split down the middle of the 47%).

He reacts to this with a resolution to cease his allegedly long campaign of "helping black people". As a result of the poll, he'll also cease to identify as black (which he says he has because he thought it's fitting to identify as the group he's helped for so long), considering black people a "hate group" if nearly half of them do not believe it's okay to be white. He also recommends that, if you're white, you should try to "get the hell away" from black people, citing the example of his moving to a predominantly white neighborhood. He says "there's no fixing this", suggesting helping black people is a lost cause.

He defines "help" as "give you a hand; mentor you; hire you; prefer you", saying he'll "stop all of that" and that it won't work. He concludes the only thing that works is "fixing your own problem", like "everyone else" has, refusing to speculate why there's a difference in the extent to which various groups have done so.

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Saturday February 25, 2023 @04:49PM (#34940815)
OK, now explain how this is “unhinged racism”.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by shrimp_emoji on Saturday February 25, 2023 @05:51PM (#34941275)
I don't know about that, but in https://youtu.be/fYXkMieE0CA?t=350 this stream he says "a racist is a person who tries to reduce racism or a person who has racism".

At https://youtu.be/fYXkMieE0CA?t=1186, he says that what he did was "the opposite of racism -- but also racism . . . the opposite of racism is racism".

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by aport on Saturday February 25, 2023 @05:54PM (#34941299)
How about you explain how what was just shown to you is not unhinged racism.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Sunday February 26, 2023 @02:05AM (#34943715)
It’s the people who claims to see the emperor’s clothes who must be able to describe them. The people who think he’s naked can’t really describe the clothes they don’t see.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by ModernMech on Sunday February 26, 2023 @08:43AM (#34945466)
I notice a lot of people responded to you substantively, but you only responded to the ones who didn’t. If you want to advance the conversation, you might respond to them instead of asking the same question over and over.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Sunday February 26, 2023 @02:28PM (#34948517)
Yes, if someone writes something to which I have no substantive response (i.e. something non-trivial), and if their point is generally a good point, I simply upvote it and move on. The issue has been aired, adequate coverage has been given to various views; there is no need for the thread to continue indefinetely. It is only when I have a good counter-argument (which nobody else has already delivered) that I reply. (Or, sometimes, when a question is obviously directed at me personally.)
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by PuppyTailWags on Saturday February 25, 2023 @06:26PM (#34941516)
Suggesting white people get "the hell away from" any race is pretty unhinged, Imma be honest. I can't imagine any non-unhinged situation where an entire race is verboten to my entire race.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by freejazz on Saturday February 25, 2023 @07:16PM (#34941821)
Saying that he identified as black, now doesn't, and will therefore also stop helping black people, and that white people should stay away from black people, because some sort of a poll, seems likely completely unhinged stupidity of a particularly racial bent. If that wasn't obvious to you, what do you think it is?
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by MollyRealized on Saturday February 25, 2023 @08:59PM (#34942318)
With the admonition that I agree with none of this, here is what he said in the recording I viewed:

"If nearly half of all blacks are not okay with white people -- according to this poll, not according to me, according to this poll -- that's a hate group. That's a hate group, and I don't want to have anything to do with them. And I would say, you know based on the current way things are going, the best advice I would give to white people is to get the hell away from black people. Just get the fuck away, wherever you have to go, just get away. Because there's no fixing this. This can't be fixed, right? This can't be fixed. You just have to escape. So that's what I did: I went to a neighborhood where, you know, I have a very low black population. Because, unfortunately, you know, there's a high correlation between the density -- and this is according to Don Lemon, by the way, and so here I'm just quoting Don Lemon, when he notes that, when he lived in a mostly black neighborhood, there were a bunch of problems they didn't see in white neighborhoods. So even Don Lemon sees a big difference in your own quality of living based on where he lived and who's there.

"So I think it makes no sense whatsoever as a white citizen of America to try to help black citizens anymore. It doesn't make sense. It's no longer a rational impulse.

"And I'm gonna, I'm gonna back off from being helpful to black America -- because it doesn't seem like it pays off. Like, I've been doing it all my life, and have been -- the only outcome is I've been, I get called a racist. That's the only outcome. It makes no sense to help black Americans if you're white. It's over. Don't don't even think it's worth trying. Totally not trying. And. There we go. You didn't expect that today, did you?

[beep]

"But those who don't want to focus on education, you just need to get away from them. Just get as much distance as you can. That's my recommendation, and I'm also really sick of seeing video after video of black Americans beating up non-black citizens. I'm -- you know, I realize this is anecdotal, you know, and doesn't give me a full picture of what's happening, but every damn day I look on social media and there's some black person beating this shit out of some white person. I'm kind of over it. I'm over it, right? So, I quit."

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Saturday February 25, 2023 @09:04PM (#34942345)
OK, now explain how this is “unhinged racism”.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by MollyRealized on Saturday February 25, 2023 @09:34PM (#34942496)
I believe by this point you're just sealioning [1], but:

* "the best advice I would give to white people is to get the hell away from black people"

* "This can't be fixed."

* "it makes no sense whatsoever as a white citizen of America to try to help black citizens anymore."

* "you just need to get away from them. Just get as much distance as you can."

[1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Saturday February 25, 2023 @09:43PM (#34942548)
I’m trying to get people to explain the racism rather than just write selected quotes. I want explicit explanations, since if serious accusations (like racism) keep being implied rather than explicit, then they can’t be reasonably argued against. And serious accusations should be able to be argued against. But you can’t argue a negative; you need an actual rationalization to be explicitly stated, which is why I suspect that so many accusers are so incredibly vague in their accusations.

You, in this thread, keep just quoting and not explaining anything, which does not exactly help your case.

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by MollyRealized on Saturday February 25, 2023 @10:36PM (#34942806)
"Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ('I'm just trying to have a debate'), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of 'incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate' ... "
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Saturday February 25, 2023 @10:39PM (#34942821)
I know what “Sealioning” is. I read the original comic it came from. And this is entirely tangential to my request for explanations. Also, your comment now consists entirely of a quote, without any argument of your own.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by ModernMech on Saturday February 25, 2023 @10:44PM (#34942845)
This comment gets at the heart of the issue: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34942502

The poll doesn’t prove anything, especially that black people as a race are a hate group. The idea an entire race should be considered a “hate group” is absurd on its face. So one should approach results indicating as such with a big question mark, because they are surprising. That the phrase in question is a white supremacist dog whistle fully explains the results actually.

But to take this poll credulously and throw your hands up in the air as Scott does says a lot. He doesn’t stop there though, he runs with it. With a full throat he declares an end to the idea of our integrated multicultural society. He implores white people to purposefully segregate and insulate themselves from black prior as an act of safety.

I think it’s been pointed out a couple times in this thread how polls can be deceptive. That Scott doesn’t even really grapple with this possibility and instead dives straight to “white flight” mode… well, for his sake I just hope he can get over this phase.

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Saturday February 25, 2023 @11:55PM (#34943172)
You explain quite well why his apparent reaction is absurd in many ways, which is why an initial good faith guess about what he’s doing should probably be that he’s being facetious, and using the poll results to rationalize not giving anyone preferential treatment anymore.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by ModernMech on Sunday February 26, 2023 @08:25AM (#34945336)
That would be an appropriate guess for anyone who hasn’t paid attention to Adams the past 6 or so years. The poll is confirming his prejudices, that’s why he’s so eager to believe them.

If Adams has been putting on a fake alt-right persona this whole time, I would encourage him maybe he should stop the act, otherwise people might start confusing him for a raging racist.

Until then, I’ll believe Adams is what Adams is telling me he is.

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by zzo38computer on Monday February 27, 2023 @12:16AM (#34953269)
I think that you are correct. This is a good explanation. I was writing my own but now I don't need to because this one is better (it is the same ideas than what I thought, but you could write it better than I do).
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by monkey_monkey on Sunday February 26, 2023 @04:44AM (#34944308)
No one owes you an explanation. Read the quotes and tell us why they're not racist.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by fidgewidge on Sunday February 26, 2023 @06:37AM (#34944773)
That's not how civilized societies work. If you make an accusation you have to explain what you mean, not simply echo words back at the speaker - that's what children do because they haven't yet learned how to debate or reason.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by monkey_monkey on Sunday February 26, 2023 @07:20AM (#34944972)
Children are the ones to repeatedly ask the same question. Consider this a teachable moment where we're encouraging you to reason through it. As I said, present why you don't think it's racist.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by faeriechangling on Saturday February 25, 2023 @09:54PM (#34942593)
Advising whites segregate themselves from blacks on the grounds of a poll result?

First that’s a hell of a thing to say based on a poll result.

Second it doesn’t really follow when the point of integration wasn’t that every racial group unanimously had warm cuddly views of another, the biggest reason it happened is that segregation was causing things like unequal treatment of black people and self-esteem issues in black children. What he advises is something we know has racist outcomes in practice, and it’s also directly racist to literally just avoid or associate with people because of skin colour.

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Saturday February 25, 2023 @10:17PM (#34942716)
A possible counter-argument could be that he’s just being somewhat facetious, and takes the stupid poll result and runs with it, and then shows what the result would be if one were to take the poll results at face value.

Also, one could easily imagine that he further uses the poll results to withdraw from the societal obligation to show preferential treatment to some people, which he has grown tired of, since it mainly resulted in him being called a racist anyway.

If he was actually an “unhinged racist”, I doubt that he would sound like the person in the video. What he does sound like, to my non-American ears at least, is someone who’s been trying to do good for most of his life, and gotten nothing but complaints and accusations of racism for it, and is tired of the whole thing and wants to wash his hands of it. Of course, trying to advocate for separatism is a tricky proposition, since it has horrible historical precedents. But he does not mention these, so I could easily believe that he simply did not think of that particular parallel, and is just advising people to steer clear of the whole issue, albeit in an ill-advised way.

It is way too easy to write people off as “unhinged racists” when you can easily interpret their actions otherwise. As the HN guidelines say, “Assume good faith.”

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by tstrimple on Sunday February 26, 2023 @12:29AM (#34943309)
Ah yes. Schrodinger’s racist. The racists can gleefully agree with your opinion and if anyone gets upset you can just resort to “just joking bro!”
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by ModernMech on Sunday February 26, 2023 @08:31AM (#34945378)
That the HN community is called to assume good faith doesn’t mean we have to be naive or credulous in the face of blatant bad faith. If this were Scott Adams’ first trip round the alt-right talking points block, maybe you have a point. But he’s been doing stuff like this for 6+ years, and he either likes the attention or actually believes all of it. Those are the only two good faith interpretations left. Either way people are taking him literally, so if he wants to clarify his actual position, he should now.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by tstrimple on Sunday February 26, 2023 @12:26AM (#34943301)
If you don’t understand why telling white people to stay the hell away from black people as they are a hate group and there is no hope of helping them is racist, I’m afraid you simply don’t understand what racism to any degree where further explanations would help.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by teddyh on Sunday February 26, 2023 @12:58AM (#34943456)
What he advised might be reasonable if you were to assume that the opinion poll is literally correct. Since it’s not reasonable, it follows that maybe the opinion poll is stupid. Which might be his point.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by ModernMech on Sunday February 26, 2023 @08:38AM (#34945434)
I think he could have made that point without offering a full throated defense of segregation. It’s not a clever or novel thing to say that polls are biased, especially Rasmussen polls. If what you say is true, then all he’s doing is trying to be edgy while spreading white nationalist talking points. Still not a great look for Adams in the best case scenario. Shows a real lack of judgement and character — he’s a grown man.

I’m sure there’s some internet law that says when you pretend to be something enough, you become that thing. If Scott is pretending to be an alt-right white nationalist sympathizer to make points about the integrity of polling, he’s doing a great job. He’s doing so well, he’s got even the white nationalists thinking he’s one of them.

Maybe today would be a good time for Adams to clarify. Or maybe he’ll let us go on believing what he said on his podcast is representative of his beliefs.

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by patriciaaa on Monday February 27, 2023 @08:18PM (#34964483)
Ohhh, racism is terrible and I wrote essay about it. Writing an argumentative essay about racism involves presenting evidence to support a certain claim or thesis in an effort to persuade the reader. Facts alone won't cut it; you'll need to appeal to your audience's emotions as well. Topics that address bias and discrimination of any kind provide fertile ground for an https://gradesfixer.com/free-essay-examples/racism/ argumentative essay about racism. It is also important to include data from social surveys and statistics. With this tips your essay will looks good.
Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by giardini on Sunday March 05, 2023 @10:58AM (#35030716)
shrimp_emoji says:>"He is shocked that about 47% of black Americans polled allegedly responded to the question "Is it okay to be white?" with either "Not sure" or "No" (roughly split down the middle of the 47%)."<

teddyh says: >"OK, now explain how this is “unhinged racism”<

Is 47% not "unhinged racism"? What about 44% as referred to in the movie "Ship of Fools", set in 1933 pre-WWII on a German passenger boat. Lowenthal is a Jew and Glocken a dwarf - groups later purged by the Nazis:

Glocken: Fifty percent of the people who produced a Goethe, a Beethoven, and a Bach voted for Rieber's [Nazi] party last week!

Lowenthal: [grumbles disagreed] Forty-four percent.

Glocken: Lowenthal, you are blind; you're absolutely blind! You can't see what's going on in front of your own face.

Lowenthal: What do you mean? Ah, you mean this business about the Jews? You don't understand us. The German-Jew is something special. We are Germans first and Jews second. We have done so much for Germany; Germany has done so much for us. A little patience, a little good will; it works itself out. [scoffs endearingly] Huh, listen, there are nearly a million Jews in Germany. What are they going to do? Kill all of us?

See the whole context at the "quotes" section at https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059712/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu\...

Re:We are dropping the Dilbert comic because of creator Scot... by trafficante on Saturday February 25, 2023 @05:17PM (#34940996)
Would be really nice if maybe the “conservatives” would one day advance an actual conservative solution like incentivizing the creation and stability of black families.