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Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by ThrowawayTestr on Sunday February 19, 2023 @07:11PM (#34863341)
This is obvious to anyone that works. What do we do about it?
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by dontlaugh on Sunday February 19, 2023 @07:29PM (#34863469)
The threat of industrial action is a great motivator for employers. Unionising your workplace makes that threat possible.
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by jjtheblunt on Sunday February 19, 2023 @11:15PM (#34864834)
does that work better than jumping to a preferable employer (assuming such is possible)?
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by photonbeam on Sunday February 19, 2023 @11:49PM (#34865003)
Yes, it means they cant pick you off one by one, but have to negotiate against a group that has real leverage
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by everforward on Monday February 20, 2023 @12:11AM (#34865135)
That assumes everyone has that option. There's likely not enough "preferable employer" jobs for everyone to have one in many sectors.

There's also a divide between tactics efficient at the individual level and that efficient at a national or global level. E.g. you can tell an individual they should be a doctor/lawyer/engineer/etc and that's good advice, but if everyone does it then who grows food and cleans floors and etc?

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by ec2y on Monday February 20, 2023 @01:28AM (#34865560)
You obviously don’t have my sucky union. The idiots let our agreement lapse over the pandemic and can’t their act together for a new one. (I’d suspect they were being union busted but I’m in Australia where unions are normal.)
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by sudosysgen on Monday February 20, 2023 @03:36AM (#34866265)
There are heavy limitations on union industrial action in Australia that make this sort of thing much more likely to happen. It's a tremendously contrived system and as a result Unions often up very chummy to the employer as elements which may be more amenable to confrontation can get frustrated with the immense complexity and difficulty that brings. Any kind of industrial action used for bargaining is almost impossible to get authorized. I'd say the Australian union system is one of the worst in the world, and most Australian unions are structurally busted.
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by missedthecue on Monday February 20, 2023 @01:48AM (#34865678)
This is why truckers (unionised) make a lot of money while software devs (nonunionised) scrape by
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by kar5pt on Monday February 20, 2023 @03:28AM (#34866223)
How do you put on pants in the morning?
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by missedthecue on Monday February 20, 2023 @10:17PM (#34876029)
My comment was facetious satire illustrating that productivity increases, not cartels, are the key to rising wages.

I'm sorry it was difficult to understand.

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by fuzzfactor on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:49AM (#34893587)
In a place like SV what percentage of truckers have been laid off compared to software people?

How many are really increasing productivity in the long run anyway?

When you think about it, their own employers must be satisfied with the lower productivity of a smaller staff or they wouldn't be kicking people out.

Edit: Not my downvote. Corrective upvote actually.

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by wolongong942 on Sunday February 19, 2023 @11:33PM (#34864925)
Avoid careers that have been devalued to a greater extent by the following:

• Women entering the work force

• Immigration

• Globalization

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by x11vnc4life on Monday February 20, 2023 @12:25AM (#34865203)
Very Charlottesville 2017.
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by somewhereoutth on Monday February 20, 2023 @05:36AM (#34866921)
Get involved with local politics. E.g. the internal party selection process for a candidate for a seat in the UK parliament may only involve a few hundred people - if that seat is safe (i.e. practically guaranteed to that party) then those few hundred effectively choose the representative, and so have a large voice in determining policy.

(Ironically the one time I was one of the few hundred, our chosen candidate - who was excellent - got beaten by the Greens in an election upset)

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by krageon on Monday February 20, 2023 @06:28AM (#34867143)
Politics is all backroom stuff and old boy networks. You may get involved, but to even start influencing a little you will need many years of networking before you can ever get started. And statistically speaking, you are unlikely to succeed. Objectively it is the only advice that makes sense, but viewed from the individual it doesn't really yield any kind of solution.
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by azmodeus on Monday February 20, 2023 @06:47AM (#34867243)
If you organise yourself you can make an impact a group of 50-100 is easy to build and can achieve a lot. Once you build a group it's easier to network as well. This takes a lot of time and effort for 5-10 years. Don't defeat your voice, fight cynicism.
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by pmyteh on Monday February 20, 2023 @10:16AM (#34868861)
There is a certain amount of agency in UK parliamentary selections, but the leaderships of both major parties have (for a good while) been keen to limit that. I'm not saying that it's futile -- you'll certainly get a choice of candidates that the leaderships are happy with -- but I'm not sure it's a decent mechanism for achieving change anywhere except at the margins.
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by SideQuark on Monday February 20, 2023 @06:45AM (#34867231)
Don't accept free money during a pandemic? Except that would be bad too.....

Govt handouts during the pandemic added significant money without increased production to keep people afloat, which is good short term. The cost of that is inflation medium term. Long term wages rise to offset inflation. This has always been the pattern. Adding money for nothing to the system devalues each piece of money, so inflation is expected.

Long term wages for context https://www.visualizingeconomics.com/blog/2008/05/04/average...

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by throwaway5959 on Monday February 20, 2023 @07:09AM (#34867362)
I’m so tired of this nonsense. The checks cut, at least in the US, only barely added to peoples bank accounts and were for the most part quickly spent. Just look at excess savings, there was a brief spike and now it’s back lower than ever. Stop spreading this propaganda.
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by adam_arthur on Monday February 20, 2023 @10:16AM (#34868854)
You’re wrong. Excess savings is still elevated far above pre-pandemic trends.

https://theovershoot.co/p/americas-excess-household-savings

You’re likely referencing the savings rate, which is a different concept. This measures how much of newly earned income is saved, not how much excess savings somebody has in an absolute sense.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT

Aside from savings, household credit is still below pre-pandemic trends in real terms, just touching the nominal trend recently.

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by throwaway5959 on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:56PM (#34876820)
> Americans liquidated more than $1 trillion of “excess” savings in 2022, eliminating more than half of the surplus accumulated since the pandemic began.

Sounds like the problem is solving itself then?

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by adam_arthur on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @10:24AM (#34882142)
This is not "solving itself"... the Fed has hiked rates 5% and is still going.

History shows there’s likely going to be a severe recession at the end of this

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by SideQuark on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @10:56AM (#34882546)
Yet two huge indictors of a looming recession are completely opposite end of what happens in a recession: unemployment at 50 year low and consumer spending is at an all time high.
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by adam_arthur on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @11:48AM (#34883327)
Look at unemployment in 2007, or before any major recession.

Its almost always quite low, which is the reason inflation is high and the Fed has to throw the economy into recession.

Low unemployment is a recession precursor, not the other way around. Very clear from the data

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by SideQuark on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @09:34PM (#34890848)
Every recession in over 70 years has seen a rise in unemployment before the recession started 1, shaded blocs are recessions]. So far unemployment is still trending down. And historically the length of time between recessions is quite varied.

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by adam_arthur on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @10:42PM (#34891366)
Yes, unemployment is low and then rises.

Show me on this chart where unemployment goes low and stays low for an extended period? It has never happened.

Recession dynamics in relation to unemployment are well understood. Low unemployment as a driver of inflation is well understood. Fed reaction function in relation to inflation is well understood. The consequence of higher unemployment as a result of higher real rates is well understood

Only immaculate disinflation can prevent a recession at this point. If fed has to induce it, a recession is all but guaranteed

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by SideQuark on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @02:48PM (#34901579)
>Show me on this chart where unemployment goes low and stays low for an extended period? It has never happened.

Show where on the chart it stays flat for long period of time.

You're just moving goalposts at this point.

The fact is, and is demonstrated by that chart, that unemployment tends downwards between recessions, then jumps during them. And each recession had an uptick before the recession. The down trend length is not at all indicative of impending recession from that chart. And, as I pointed out to begin with, the current unemployment is not having that uptick. Many of the upticks took over a year from uptick start to recession. And there's ample upticks more than 5 years before the next recession. So uptick does not imply recession, but lack of uptick implies no recession soon. There is not a single example among the 12 recessions in that data (and, if you look at other country data, the same pattern appears).

My original point is correct: there is yet no sign in the unemployment data of impending recession, no matter how much you seem to want one, so much so you make incorrect claims about the data without actually checking the data.

>Recession dynamics in relation to unemployment are well understood. Low unemployment as a driver of inflation is well understood. Fed reaction function in relation to inflation is well understood. The consequence of higher unemployment as a result of higher real rates is well understood

Those are partially understood - if there were such a causal or even empirical link from one to the other we'd not need the NBER to analyze macro variables to decide on recessions. This is not physics - there is a lot more uncertainty, and some factors move over time as different factor weights change (and even political will to do things). That there is no simple way to look at all the variables you mention and claim "impending recession!" with any certainty is the most salient fact of all.

And, as I pointed out, unemployment is not at this moment pointing to immediate recession, unless you have a never before seen relation between them.

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by fuzzfactor on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:19AM (#34893407)
Looks like the data matches the history.

Where as soon as each official recession has been deemed to occur in retrospect according to today's terms, then unemployment shoots up since so many people are kicked out.

As we have seen.

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by SideQuark on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @02:49PM (#34901594)
>has been deemed to occur in retrospect according to today's terms

Yes, that graph shows the "retrospect" recession start, and every one is after unemployment rises. But not every rise in unemployment yields a recession.

Currently there is not a rise in unemployment.

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by SideQuark on Monday February 20, 2023 @01:32PM (#34871119)
>Stop spreading this propaganda

This isn't propaganda - it's econ 101. Read any intro econ textbook and all this is completely expected, historically backed up by many events for centuries in hundreds of countries. There's no propaganda.

M1 money (a common measure of the money supply) went from around 4 trillion to over 16 trillion in a matter of months during the pandemic [1] as a result of the govt adding trillions of dollars - a completely unprecedented amount.

Do you really think a govt can simply throw trillions into an economy at this rate and not have inflation?

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by throwaway5959 on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:55PM (#34876807)
k let's assume that's the case, what would you propose as the solution to mop up the 12 trillion in excess M1?
Re:Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation by SideQuark on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @10:47AM (#34882421)
Nothing - you let it run it's course while mitigating inflation with Fed actions. Money will rescale as it's always done, and people will go on their way (as they're doing right now).

This is how it's been done the world over, and it works pretty well, despite pop articles creating more panic than is warranted. Money has been added in the past to smooth out the 18th and 19th century boom and bust cycles, and it has worked extremely well compared to past pain.

Every country on the planet has chosen central banking since the evidence it's better than the alternatives has been overwhelming for almost a century.