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Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by jprd on Saturday February 11, 2023 @08:52PM (#34758698)
It is _super_ weird how little attention this derailment seems to be attracting.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by sbelskie on Saturday February 11, 2023 @08:55PM (#34758717)
I’ve seen a handful of national media outlets cover it without paying any particular attention. What level of attention should this story be getting?
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by SamBam on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:14PM (#34758880)
I don't see it anywhere at all in the New York Times.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by culi on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:39PM (#34759067)
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by s5300 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @08:58PM (#34758743)
Given the fact it’s going to affect things downstream & across state lines… probably at least the level that “Chinese spy balloons” are getting.

Might hinge on how bad the first impending acid rain ends up being.

I think Jackson Mississippi still doesn’t have clean water, & you haven’t seen that in any headlines for quite some time. Most things that actually matter don’t get very good news coverage, lest people become concerned about how hard they’re being swindled by corporations.

Ohio just got completely swindled by JD Vance, so nobody should be surprised when bad things continue to happen to the general populace with zero accountability from those causing it.

Also, keep in mind that this is the land of a river (Cuyahoga aka Cleveland) catching on fire at least 15 times. Environmental disasters with no accountability are our groove.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by auctoritas on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:04PM (#34758794)
How does JD Vance have anything to do with this
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by s5300 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:09PM (#34758837)
He’s a grifter pushing policies that lead to disasters like this. And a significant portion of Ohio roots for them.

Surely you can understand the correlation between policies that take away safety measures for (marginal) profit increase & catastrophic disasters happening because of a lack of safety measures.

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rule...

Nothing is going to change (in this case railway/environmental disasters) until lawmakers that care about implementing proper safety measures are elected. Or any sort of accountability at all.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by User23 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:08PM (#34758829)
Here’s my attempt at a steel man: JD Vance is one of the bad guys on the bad guys team. Whenever bad things happen it’s the bad guys’ fault.

I’m aware that sounds like a pretty poor alloy, but it’s internally consistent, matches the observables, and I can’t really honestly do better.

Edit: The point of this is to explain what this derailment has to do with JD Vance. Any reply that fails to explain why JD Vance is somehow personally involved is failing to do better than the offered steel man. Just generally supporting policies you disagree with merely makes him a bad guy. You do think he’s bad for supporting these policies you believe are bad right? Next you have to show that a freshman senator in the minority who’s been in office for a month is somehow responsible even indirectly. I’d like to see a better effort to steel man that than mine.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by SamBam on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:15PM (#34758885)
That's literally the opposite of a steel man argument.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by s5300 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:13PM (#34758876)
If bad guys are what you call politicians that repeatedly call to strike down industrial safety measures & corporate accountability, then I could perhaps say that you are on to something
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by User23 on Sunday February 12, 2023 @10:08AM (#34763348)
I wasn’t able to find anything about striking down industrial safety measures in JD Vance’s campaign platform or voting record. Can you? If not then what does this have to do with JD Vance?
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by emodendroket on Sunday February 12, 2023 @01:00AM (#34760295)
If you were actually trying to "steel man" wouldn't you say "policies which make this type of industrial accident more likely" rather than "policies that are bad/you disagree with," which makes it sound childish and random?
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by User23 on Sunday February 12, 2023 @12:19PM (#34764636)
I can’t find any evidence of JD Vance supporting such policies in either his platform or his voting record. I don’t think just making things up counts as steel manning.

Incidentally, in the USA Congress has delegated the power to regulate rail safety to the Executive branch which last I knew was controlled by the Good Guys. So I’m really at a loss how to show that this has anything to do with a freshman senator in the minority. I begin to think nobody else knows how to either. The miasma theory of Vance’s affiliation with the Bad Guys somehow making bad things happen in his state really is the best argument anyone has presented here.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by emodendroket on Sunday February 12, 2023 @02:57PM (#34766264)
Spending a minute or two on a search I see that, on the basis of his likely environmental policies, he's been endorsed by Andrew Wheeler, formerly of the EPA (https://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/JD_Vance_Environment.ht...). Let's see what he was up to while he was on the EPA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_R._Wheeler#EPA_administ...

What do you know, slashing a bunch of environmental regulations.

Did you come across this in your efforts to figure out how someone could possibly believe Vance would support deregulation on the environment?

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by User23 on Sunday February 12, 2023 @03:41PM (#34766702)
* * *
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by emodendroket on Sunday February 12, 2023 @08:39PM (#34769190)
No, the point was it took me minutes to find and you didn't really care to find an answer as much as you pretended.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by User23 on Sunday February 12, 2023 @10:38PM (#34769854)
But you didn’t find anything other that he’s on Team Bad Guy? Thank you for helping prove the strength of my steel man.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by TomSwirly on Sunday February 12, 2023 @03:22AM (#34761006)
Translation: "I'm not going to bother to understand this issue. I'm going to talk down to people instead."
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by Apocryphon on Sunday February 12, 2023 @04:00AM (#34761238)
A straw man dressed up like a steel man, delicious
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by emodendroket on Sunday February 12, 2023 @12:59AM (#34760283)
I saw people on social media saying "wow this looks really bad" and had to put a fair amount of effort into finding stories on Apple News (where I usually read news stories) giving a rundown. Social media can certainly be prone to Chicken Little-ism but nobody seems to be questioning the line officials are giving here. If anything I think this might be a sign of how weak local news reporting has become. No doubt this would be of interest if it happened in the vicinity of New York City or Los Angeles.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by dv_dt on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:18PM (#34758904)
Smaller, less owned news outlets are providing some coverage:

https://www.levernews.com/there-will-be-more-derailments/

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by TEP_Kim_Il_Sung on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:28PM (#34758968)
Media too busy reporting on that piece of the sun that fell onto the moon.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by kevingadd on Saturday February 11, 2023 @08:55PM (#34758719)
If you search Google News, it's been widely covered - it just falls off the front page quickly in favor of other things.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by mc32 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:00PM (#34758761)
Given the amount of people affected and the toxicity of the chemicals, you'd think they'd give it commensurate coverage --such as Chinese balloons, Biden documents, Trump documents, Police beatings, etc.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by paulmd on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:10PM (#34758844)
Which group of the wealthy/powerful would attention to this issue benefit?

Like to be clear not only is it not an issue that's going to be addressed, the Biden administration is actually looking at loosening safety regulations further. Republicans are not going to go against industry. It's an industrial state that flagrantly does not care about pollution issues (like building a shopping mall on top of a toxic waste dump level flagrancy) and nobody involved wants to rock the boat right now.

https://twitter.com/RebeccaJBurns_/status/162413713998106215...

https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike...

The fundamental underlying issue is there's not enough people to run the trains. The train lines don't want to pay a high enough salary that the supply would meet demand, and DOT weed testing regulations are reducing the pool of eligible applicants as well, pushing that curve downwards further.

There is no way out of this without getting more people into train crews and reducing the size of the trains. The derailleur equipment currently installed can't even safely derail trains of these lengths. It is. not. safe. to. run. trains. this. long. You need more crews and larger crews running smaller trains again. This is an issue that has crept up in the last 10 years and it's going to continue until something changes.

But pushing back on industry is a big no in America these days, Republicans aren't going to do it and this isn't the fight the Biden administration wants to pick right now, they want this to go away. They already slapped down the union, which really pissed off quite a few of the base... but what are they gonna do, vote republican? The biden admin wants the trains to run on time so people get their amazon shit.

And the local elected officials are on the 'locking up journalists who try to report it' level here, not actually doing anything that would inconvenience industry. And Biden just wants the trains to run on time, he's already made that very clear.

So again: which set of powerful people are going to be making a big ruckus in the media? Everyone is OK with this. Ohio is an industrial state, they keep voting in Republicans (even in statewide offices) and fighting against unions. This is what Ohioans collectively signed up for and continue to sign up for every election.

Remember this when Intel wants you to move to Ohio for those new fabs. You're moving to an industrial hellscape and nobody's gonna care if your kids' playground is built on a superfund site or an unsafe train running on a skeleton crew crashes and explodes and dumps a cloud of poison gas into the air. It's Ohio.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by TomSwirly on Sunday February 12, 2023 @03:23AM (#34761018)
Thank you for a well-reasoned (and well-written) argument.

I mean, it's depressing, even devastating, but it's better to know the truth.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by paulmd on Sunday February 12, 2023 @08:43PM (#34769210)
It wasn't supposed to make you feel good. I ain't feel good writing any of that shit either, I hope nothing there makes you think I'm anything other than a deeply unhappy person, it fucking sucks and it just continues to get worse every year.

It's just, it's the same dead kids every week. This week they died in a super cool explosion or got super cool cancer instead of dying in a super cool school shooting or choked to death by a couple super cool cops or died of a super cool preventable illness because their medication costs $2k a month.

People don't care, not really, they say they do but the way they vote says they don't. You wanna see people get real unhappy and start voting some fuckers out, make the flow of amazon packages stop. The dead kids don't matter, not like the packages do. If there is the perception of things going back to the way they were in 2020 with the supply chain people are gonna lose their fucking shit and vote in some really despicable motherfuckers (oh, it can always get worse). The trains gotta run.

America just wants to have a normal dinner for once. Yep, some kids died, that happens every week here and we just move on. More kids are gonna die next week, and the week after that too. Open for business, buddy, did I fucking stutter?

Shikata ga nai. There just isn't.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by adamnemecek on Saturday February 11, 2023 @08:55PM (#34758721)
They are locking up journalists so it's not that surprising.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by arp242 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @08:59PM (#34758754)
Who is locking up journalists?
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by chrononaut on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:06PM (#34758814)
I assume they are referring to this single instance, as it's the only one I could find.

https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike...

But within the article:

> At the end of his news conference, [Gov. Mike] DeWine said he didn’t authorize the arrest and reporters have “every right” to report during briefings.

> “If someone was stopped from doing that, or told they could not do that, that was wrong,” DeWine said.

Seems OP's statement is a bit generally misleading statement for a single incident, without also knowing the full details that prompted the arrest in the first place.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by acdha on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:04PM (#34758799)
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by dhbanes on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:03PM (#34758790)
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by arp242 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:13PM (#34758872)
Things like "he was told to stop speaking during the governor's remarks" and "asked Lambert to stop his live reporting because they believed it was loud and disruptive" seems to indicate it's a situation escalating because ... I don't know, I wasn't there, and there doesn't seem to be any footage of these incidents. Hard to tell who is "at fault".
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by emodendroket on Sunday February 12, 2023 @01:32AM (#34760450)
I think the PR desk of the people accused of improperly arresting a journalist may not be an entirely neutral source for accounts of what happened.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by actionfromafar on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:00PM (#34758756)
For reporting on the derailing?!
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by lwansbrough on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:10PM (#34758851)
Parent comment is misleading. See one of the other replies.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by xenospn on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:01PM (#34758768)
Yes
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by chrononaut on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:18PM (#34758905)
A single journalist, among many attendees, being arrested for allegedly being loud in a gymnasium during a news conference is a bit of a stretch to state as evidence that authorities are generally arresting journalists reporting on the derailing.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by blooalien on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:04PM (#34758802)
Source?
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by throwawaysleep on Saturday February 11, 2023 @08:55PM (#34758718)
Aren't there several of these situations ongoing at any given time? It has happened twice near some aunts of mine. Train derailments leaking chemicals do not seem that rare.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by morpheos137 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @09:09PM (#34758835)
Train derailments involving vinyl chloride, a highly toxic, carcinogenic chemical are rare though...

Vinyl chloride also known as vinyl monomer is used to make PVC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by fuzzfactor on Sunday February 12, 2023 @07:19PM (#34768644)
The Vinyl Chloride Monomer is often referred to as VCM.

It is a gas which is liquefied under pressure in a similar way to propane, so tanks and rail cars must be completely airtight at all times.

Otherwise the entire liquid cargo will rapidly be expelled under pressure as a liquid from any opening on the bottom of the vessel, or the entire liquid cargo will still evaporate quite rapidly and eventually all escape as a gas stream through defects or open valves on the top part of the vessel.

Any VCM liquid spilled will act like propane and rapidly turn into a gas which will disperse much wider through the air much more rapidly.

Not much is going to soak into the soil or be carried away by water drainage channels.

If it was an acetone spill or something like that it wouldn't evaporate nearly as fast, nor present as widespread an atmospheric content downwind, and you would have to get a lot closer to the spill to detect the vapors or smell it yourself even for a briskly evaporating liquid like acetone.

But the VCM is not only flammable, it is actually a highly toxic gas.

VCM smells exactly like most brand-new PVC shower curtains, because VCM's exactly what you're smelling in very small concentrations, as any residual monomer often outgasses strongly the first few days after hanging the curtain.

In an unventilated bathroom I would think that's often beyond the recognized working VCM levels allowed in industrial facilities.

Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by TomSwirly on Sunday February 12, 2023 @03:21AM (#34760997)
It was big news here in Europe when it happened. I was surprised when my American friends didn't know anything about it.
Re:Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after tra... by pvaldes on Sunday February 12, 2023 @05:37AM (#34761764)
>This content is not available in your country/region.