News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by yumraj on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:27PM (#34728817)
The one, and only benchmark, I care about is battery longevity.

Not how long battery lasts before needing charge, but how many years it lasts before dropping to say 80% of original capacity that it needs to be replaced or the phone needs to be updated.

Most, if not all, modern phones are performant enough that I won’t need to update for a long time, if not for the battery issues. At least for my use case.

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by ericpauley on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:41PM (#34728960)
All phone battery longevities are probably within a factor of 2x (for reputable brands). An iPhone official battery replacement is $100 installed. Is longevity really that material for a component that is 1/8 the price of the phone?
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by cm2187 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:46PM (#34729049)
Apple wouldn't replace my ipad battery and is bullshitting me saying it is at 100% health. The device is 4 years old and I can tell it's only lasting half to 2/3 of the original battery life (even with only safari open). I'd be happy to pay $100.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by koolba on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:54PM (#34729178)
They won’t do the replacement even if you insist on doing it?
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by cm2187 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:08PM (#34729454)
No what the guy told me is that they can't replace batteries because of lack of repairability. So their "battery replacement" is really a full device replacement (even though my device is otherwise in mint condition), and therefore they won't do it until their own diagnostics tell them the battery is dead. And of course I found lots of people sharing the same experience on forums, their diagnostic tool is set to never tell them the battery is dead.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by roneythomas6 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:32PM (#34729913)
Apple does replacement but if the iPad is on the obsolete list then they won’t.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by KennyBlanken on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:28PM (#34729845)
I'd suggest two things.

One, do a wipe and re-install from backups. If the device doesn't really have much of importance on it, just wipe it and start fresh.

Two, discharge the iPad until it shuts off, then fully charge it and leave it plugged in for several hours after that. That will update the battery capacity gauge.

You can see the internal battery stats by plugging the iPad into a Mac and running any of a couple of different utilities - one free one is coconutbattery.

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by dangwhy on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:48PM (#34729081)
what does the battery health on the settings app say?
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by cm2187 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:52PM (#34729138)
I don't think I have a battery health in settings. The apple store guy ran some sort of remote diagnostic (and there is no way it is at 100% after 4 years of daily usage).

My point being that you can't really change those batteries on demand.

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by alvarezbjm-hn on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:03PM (#34729338)
Try another store. The guy might be trying to sell you a new device.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by KennyBlanken on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:31PM (#34729895)
If your iPad is still covered under some sort of warranty it's absolutely new enough that it has a battery health section in the settings.

Something tells me you're not really being honest with us, for the sake of a "apple suxx" story.

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by cm2187 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:38PM (#34730016)
It's an ipad pro 11 first generation. As I said, 4y old. But if you think I am dishonest be my guest.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by roneythomas6 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @04:59PM (#34732170)
iPadOS doesn't show battery health. It's always been like this. If you can show me where you are seeing battery health on a iPad then let me know.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by tzs on Friday February 10, 2023 @12:22AM (#34735941)
If you have a Mac probably the easiest way to see it is to connect the iPad to the Mac via USB and then use a third party app. I use this one, Coconut Battery [1].

The battery health is also included occasionally in the analytics the iPad sends to Apple if you have sending analytics. In Settings go to Privacy & Security/Analytics and Improvements/Analytics Data.

That takes you to a list of various recent analytics files that have been sent to Apple. If battery health was included it will be in one of the files "log-aggregated" files (iPadOS < 16) or "Analytics" files (iPadOS 16).

Battery health isn't always included in the analytics uploads so you might not have it in any of the files. Then you just have to keep checking as new files appear.

Here's a video I found talking about this [2]. The author of the video has written a shortcut [3] that shows up in the shar sheet. When viewing an analytics file you can share it with that shortcut and the shortcut will try to find battery information in that file and display it.

I just gave it a try but my logs don't currently have health information so I don't know how well it actually works for that. It did get cycle count from my logs and that matches what Coconut Battery shows.

[1] https://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ_0l5pi7ro

[3] https://www.itecheverything.com/powerutil

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by r00fus on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:26PM (#34729801)
It’s $49 for my iPhone 8 Plus. $69 for a newer phone. Considering it as the health is listed close to 85% now.

https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by ericpauley on Thursday February 09, 2023 @07:11PM (#34733679)
The 14s are $99, used the worst case in GP.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by r00fus on Thursday February 09, 2023 @08:43PM (#34734551)
Battery replacement only really makes sense for 1-2y old phones TBH unless you you’re abusing your phone.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by xenonite on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:21AM (#34737026)
The 'newer' iPhone 8+ probably won't provide a new battery either. So the change is worthwhile, still.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by thewataccount on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:39PM (#34728931)
FWIW my iPhone 7+ went 5 years and holds a charge for ~12 hours. It was just at 78% when I replaced it a few weeks ago but TBH that number is very... random (I used to do phone repair).

If you have a charger at your desk/car then honestly you could likely go even longer.

I've seen people struggling after 2 years though so it's rather random.

Just a random N=1 sample for you

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by wetpaws on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:21PM (#34729699)
12 hours is laughably small running time
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by thewataccount on Thursday February 09, 2023 @04:04PM (#34731432)
Absolutely 12 hours is not enough for a lot of people

That was with a few hours of screen time - I found that it didn't matter to me because I'd just plug it in at home/work. I'd call it "servicable" but certainly not great - but for 5 years I was personally surprised.

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by hahamaster on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:51PM (#34729118)
You take your phone to a shop and come back an hour later and boom you have a new battery. I once had a microphone fail on my phone and it was exact same scenario. It's really not a big deal.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by koolba on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:54PM (#34729169)
If you’re going to do this for an iPhone then best to hurry up. They’re raising the prices at the end of the month. I think from $49 to $89.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by scarface74 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @04:21PM (#34731670)
The average selling price of an iPhone is over $1000. How many iPhone buyers are that price sensitive to a $40 difference in price for a battery that they might replace over four years.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by koolba on Thursday February 09, 2023 @04:41PM (#34731937)
The iPhones getting their battery replaced are older iPhones owned by people who do not want to spend $1000 on a new phone. It’s people breathing new life into an iPhone 8, not someone debating dropping. $1300 on the latest release.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by scarface74 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @05:11PM (#34732345)
And those people also at one point spend $800 at least on a phone. Is $40 really a deal breaker?
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by yumraj on Thursday February 09, 2023 @04:59PM (#34732182)
I have an iPhone SE2, with 86% battery health, over 86GB of storage left and performance and size that is just perfect for me.

Why will I replace my phone if it's in just fine working condition and is sufficient for my needs, that too in just 4 years?

Battery replacement will work well for me once it's below 80%.

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by scarface74 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @05:36PM (#34732670)
That’s just the point. Very few people who bought an iPhone are going to let a $40 increase in battery replacement costs deter them.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by tzs on Thursday February 09, 2023 @11:37PM (#34735665)
It's going from $49 to $69 for iPhone 8 and older, and from $69 to $89 for iPhones newer than 8 but older than 13. 13 is remaining $99.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by rakoo on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:56PM (#34729194)
It's not a big deal if you don't care about the environment. It's about time we forget this wasteful mindset
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by seanmcdirmid on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:59PM (#34729256)
lithium batteries are easy and profitable to recycle. Yes, something is lost (recycling isn't free), but it isn't going to into a landfill.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by bhc on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:59PM (#34730417)
Less than 1 percent of Lithium-ion batteries get recycled in the US and EU.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/04/lithium-costs-a-lot-...

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by seanmcdirmid on Thursday February 09, 2023 @03:16PM (#34730706)
I can't read the study (published in India?), but I would dispute the data.

> This hasn’t worked for lithium batteries, partly because so many formats exist. “These batteries are all over the place in different sizes,” he said. A related challenge is that the technology for lithium batteries changes rapidly — every one to two years, he said.

(edit: I found a working link to the article: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41745-021-00269-7)

Apple is not throwing lithium batteries into landfills, and it is the one doing the replacement. Tesla is definitely not doing this, so what is left?

Probably those lithium rechargeable batteries you can buy on Amazon?

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by brookst on Thursday February 09, 2023 @03:15PM (#34730700)
Do you think Apple stores recycle more or less than that 1% figure?
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by kaba0 on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:14AM (#34736640)
And how is 1% of only batteries worse than throwing away the entire phone?
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by warkdarrior on Thursday February 09, 2023 @04:56PM (#34732141)
So getting the battery replaced is not environmentally friendly?? What is the environmental option then?
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by rakoo on Thursday February 09, 2023 @06:01PM (#34732990)
Shopping for a phone with a better battery life out of the box, before you need to change it. I think that's what the GP wanted to say.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by kaba0 on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:16AM (#34736656)
Show me any lithium battery-powered device that would last longer. They are all in the same ballpark and this is simply inherent in the way this tech works. Once another battery type surfaces in mobiles this might change, but still then you won’t get any meaningful differences as there is no order of magnitude difference between even the best and worst phones in power consumption and battery capacity.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by rakoo on Friday February 10, 2023 @04:33AM (#34737496)
My featurephone still gets 5 days of use without plugging in.

If you say that the comparison isn't relevant, I'll say yes: the whole point is that the industry has been innovating for computing power and computing power only. Cheaper versions exist to target low price. But no work is done to target long battery life because it's not considered profitable.

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by kaba0 on Friday February 10, 2023 @04:37AM (#34737527)
Feature phones are not running on general purpose OSs and are not capable of half the things smartphones can do. So there actually is an order of magnitude difference between energy consumption, resulting in longer battery life. But since their functionality is way different than a smartphone’s, it is akin to measuring the fuel efficiency of a horse and a car.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by rakoo on Friday February 10, 2023 @05:02AM (#34737719)
Wrong. KaiOS runs on featurephones and has a lot of the features people want from a handheld device: listening to music, messaging, social, even directions. KaiOS has a store where anyone can distribute their own apps.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by npteljes on Thursday February 09, 2023 @03:57PM (#34731336)
I wish. We bought a Cat B35 because it looked cool. Phone speaker got quieter and quieter, I bought it to several phone places, nobody wanted to touch it. Maybe it wasn't popular enough?
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by tootie on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:54PM (#34729173)
Moto G Power has a 3-day battery and costs $130 new and unlocked. I didn't even bother looking at the rest of the specs. It's works exactly fine.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by wetpaws on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:22PM (#34729729)
I wish I could have galaxy note stylo with Moto g battery and not the miniscule one that Samsung uses everywhere.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by abc_lisper on Thursday February 09, 2023 @01:58PM (#34729249)
But, the battery chemistry is almost the same across the phones. There is no magic sauce for one phone company. However, bigger batteries generally last longer, because they go through less full cycle refreshes. Getting better battery chemistry is the same order of difficulty as curing a particular cancer! May be you care about cheaper battery swaps, and that is something we all can get behind.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by jjcm on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:40PM (#34730057)
And as an addendum to this, faster/more efficient processors mean the phone takes less time before it goes back into a low powered mode. There's a strong correlation here.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by causi on Thursday February 09, 2023 @02:57PM (#34730376)
Battery longevity is much less a concern for me these days with fast charging. My phone dropping from being 70% when I plug it in to 30% would only increase my time on the charger by a few minutes since it charges so much faster at low percentages.
Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by hiisukun on Thursday February 09, 2023 @08:25PM (#34734399)
This is one of the main reasons I use two particular things on Android:

1) Firefox on mobile, with addons. Battery consumption is reduced a lot with less javascript, less ads downloaded, less domains contacted etc. From my quick tests, Firefox was perhaps efficient as a default installation compared to Chrome, or on a wifi with a pihole/nextdns type setup. But out and about in the world

2) Downloaded videos, podcasts, music or books. If I store my stuff on the device by downloading at home on wifi, it uses way less power than streaming over mobile data. My battery lasts for really long time playing videos from storage compared to for example Youtube.

I often wonder how much the battery life of a phone is a function of battery size and phone cpu & screen technology, vs web technologies and website design/performance. I can sort-of control for the latter.

Re:Apple’s 2½ year old iPhone 12 is 6% faster than the new S... by SparkyMcUnicorn on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:02AM (#34736559)
NextDNS is the best option for ads and junk, because it's applies to all apps and works from anywhere.

I also find Brave a lot simpler than Firefox + installing add-ons, and it uses uBO lists by default which is mostly what I care about.