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Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by rayiner on Monday February 06, 2023 @10:30AM (#34678785)
> I'm positive that Satya and Sundar are great motivators for indian kids to look up to (as they should be).

I'm doubtful about that. At least among my cohort (first generation south asian immigrants to the east coast) there's not a strong collective racial identity. There's strong ties to home countries, culture, and traditions, but not a strong group identification. It's interesting but not personally meaningful. I suspect it's similar to Jewish Americans--they're not looking up to Mark Zuckerberg because he's Jewish.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by rirze on Monday February 06, 2023 @03:18PM (#34683696)
I was hoping to find a reply like this; glad someone could articulate it better than I could.

Overall, I believe that culturally-same role models is a stand-in for lazy parenting. Children whose parents constantly push their kids to be better, push harder will look towards successful people of any cultural background. Compare that with children with apathetic parents, who I surmise will only have the imagination to self-associate with those who "look" like them.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by rayiner on Monday February 06, 2023 @04:05PM (#34684312)
It also robs minority parents and communities of power. If ethnic “identity” means anything at all, it means socializing children into the values and norms of that community. But someone selected by American media to “represent” us doesn’t necessarily have any connection to a group’s culture or values. When kids are encouraged to look to such “representation” as role models, that undermines the ability of these communities to socialize their children as they want. It puts the white people who run schools and the media in charge of defining what it means to be Asian or Latino or whatever, displacing parents from that process.

It also reduces ethnic identity to something extremely shallow. I’m Bangladeshi because of what my parents taught me and the norms and attitudes I’ve absorbed from the community. Kamala Harris shares almost none of those things with me. But the media says she “represents” me because of her skin tone. It’s offensively reductionist.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by nilmask on Monday February 06, 2023 @05:38PM (#34685517)
> To the contrary, "representation" is used by white people to obtain the support of minority groups without giving them anything. I see white people pressuring my daughter to look up to Kamala Harris (because Harris "looks like her"). This is just manipulation. Harris will not meaningfully advance the distinct interests of south asian people, nor is she a good model of south asian culture or values.

It's also not hard to receive this behavior as completely fucking racist. Do whites presuppose that just because we have the same skin color, ethnic background, or similar physical features, that we will be aligned on political or philosophical points?

How has it become acceptable to participate in such blatantly racist behavior, while still somehow being able to publicly label one's self as "liberal" or "anti-racist?"

I think it's time we conduct an audit of all self-identifying liberals or DEI advocates to determine which ones are actually free from unconscious bias and implicit associations, and which have merely co-opted the movement to weaponize minorities as part of a political power struggle.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by rayiner on Monday February 06, 2023 @06:52PM (#34686363)
I used to think it was just ignorance: it’s not like they’re in a position to understand minorities’ experiences, or appreciate how different groups have different interests and disputes amongst themselves.

But more I’ve come to realize that they’re just racist. They don’t actually care what minorities want, e.g. the fact that the majority oppose considering race in jobs or college admissions, as long as they can find some academics or activists who agree with them to “represent” the group.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by John23832 on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @12:00AM (#34688965)
> It's also not hard to receive this behavior as completely fucking racist. Do whites presuppose that just because we have the same skin color, ethnic background, or similar physical features, that we will be aligned on political or philosophical points?

Yes. There are many white people who align on skin color. That's how the US Antebellum South, SA Apartheid and WW2 persecution of Jews worked.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by MockObject on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:37PM (#34697012)
Look how far afield those examples had to be drawn from!
Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by mikrotikker on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @10:54AM (#34694350)
It is "anti-racist" because "anti-racist" does not mean against racism. It is a specific ideological term within DEI.
Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by onetimeusename on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:56AM (#34689620)
So in other words, without DEI, white people are evil and with DEI, white people are evil. Are you sure "white people" are actually in control?
Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by mikrotikker on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @10:55AM (#34694365)
Yes, by white people who use DEI for power.
Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by onetimeusename on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @11:27AM (#34694809)
so no non-white person has ever profited from DEI? It's all just white people's fault?
Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by mikrotikker on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @03:19PM (#34698855)
Good point.
Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by satvikpendem on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @03:58PM (#34715031)
Not sure about where you live but where I am, people (especially direct family) were very proud that Pichai and Nadella were CEOs of famous companies, they pushed us to want to be more like them. I don't see why they wouldn't serve minority interests therefore. As to your white shareholders comment, I am not sure why white shareholders would be any different from other shareholders in that they want to all make money. Go to an Indian company's board and you'll see that they act exactly the same way.