Rule 2. Don't be unattractive.
It's not a joke.
Confidence and the ability to talk are huge. You're social status among your peer group. How well you dress. Do you look after yourself physically. All of these things can be developed.
"There's truly nothing you can do today to change her mind. All the things that would have made her say 'yes' are things you had to start working on 2 years ago. Today you can start working on who you will be in 2 years and persuading the girl you meet then to say 'yes'."
The unfortunate thing is that not only is this totally opaque, but society actually gives instruction that doesn't work, i.e. bad advice. That's how we get 'nice guys' and pickup artists. Young men have an overwhelming need for intimacy that they're driven to satisfy and there. are. no. guides. on how to obtain it.
I do pretty okay in that department now, but only from 20 miserable years of trial-and-error. Looking back, I had no opportunity to learn the things I know despite desperately looking for them. Felt like I was playing a game where everyone but me and my friends knew the rules. An older brother or maybe a coach might have been a help, but that's all I can think of.
And we also know a lot more about what doesn't work. As it turns out, nice guys simply have no need to gaslight or bamboozle others into doing things they don't actually want, quite unlike the males in OP's story; they have way better things to care about. And the best part is that women can tell; these are not things you can fool anyone about for very long.
They aren't trying to be creepy, they are just misguided and lost.
> Confidence and the ability to talk are huge. You're social status among your peer group. How well you dress. Do you look after yourself physically. All of these things can be developed.
So, "fit smooth-talking alpha guy"? I'm not sure I agree with it, but your description seems _very_ shallow TBH.
What traits, that are found attractive, would you describe as less shallow?
You got it backwards - my point was that your description of "many physical traits that women prefer but they're less shallow than us men" is as shallow as "hot lustful babe with big tits" or some other stereotypical horny teenager's dream partner that you probably meant by "shallow".
Also, you know that "gender X is less shallow than Y" is sexist statement, right?
>Also, you know that "gender X is less shallow than Y" is sexist statement, right?
I strongly disagree. It's like saying women on average prefer people and men on average prefer things. It's not a judgment just an observation.
Majority of things you mentioned are not personality traits.
> Unless your point is that attraction is shallow. That I could see.
Yes, obviously.
> It's like saying women on average prefer people and men on average prefer things. It's not a judgment just an observation.
Your anecdotes are not statistics.
Here are the things I listed:
Confidence and the ability to talk are huge
You're social status among your peer group.
How well you dress.
Do you look after yourself physically.
"Confidence and the ability to talk" is absolutely a personality trait.
"You're social status among your peer group" this happens as a result of your personality. If you are a jerk you will not be well liked and will not have very good standing amongst your peers.
"How well you dress" this is an external reflection of who you are. Do you put effort into picking clothing that fits and looks good. This has a massive impact of how other people perceive you. It's the first insight someone gets into your personality. Does this person care enough to put effort into their external appearance. Do they value the perception others have of them.
"Do you look after yourself physically" women and men are looking for life partners. Often people to have a family with. If you want to stick around for long enough to do these things you're going to have to maintain some level of a healthy lifestyle. That desire to maintain health is a personality trait. It doesn't need to be that you spend 2 hours in the gym each day. Just that you haven't let yourself go to the point that you need a mobility scooter and a cpap machine.
> Your anecdotes are not statistics.
Sure if you'd like data please refer to these papers.
Sex differences in sexual attraction for aesthetics, resources and personality across age https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8133465/
Men and Things, Women and People: A Meta-Analysis of Sex Differences in Interests
This is quite a reach. Sorry, I'm not going to argue any longer why "has a six pack" or "dresses nicely" are not a personality traits.
> Sure if you'd like data please refer to these papers.
Thanks for the links.
No they're evidence of personality traits.
Sure, using academic data to statically enter the easiest class with most chicks exudes pure romanticism. I'm sure the upperclassmen playing professor in a lab or doing the work of women they find attractive is totally helping the students learning. No unwanted advances are taking place is code for "no forced touch or stalking is happening".
This suggests otherwise. I personally would be very upset if someone helped me purely because they thought I was attractive.
Why be upset about the sky being blue?
Either way I think you're allowed to discourage whatever you want (assuming you do it in a civil way). Not everyone's going to agree though.
Some people are going to think/do things that you/I don't like. And sometimes there doesn't have to be some kind of resolution that comes out of it, some kind of trial and adjudication. Life can just go on regardless.
Yeah I think this is a good way to approach this. Absolutist views tend to be problematic. Society functions by breaking a lot of rules.
What if they helped you because you were funny, or kind, or intelligent, or any number of traits that are primarily related back to your genetics or upbringing?
This is how humans interact. It's rarely a concious consideration of the reason we help others, but it's almost always based on our perception of them.
> purest romantic intention
where did I say anything about unwanted advances?
> We've really come to a point where even the purest romantic intentions (the post talks of wife material, not one night stands) are "disrespectful", have we?
that's not what was said. read again.
You want to know what's romantic?
Respect.
Or do you want to be just like all the other bros who think there's a "trick" and you kinda like have to 'do A, B + C' then you "get" someone? That's a creep who see's women as some sort of prize.
EDIT: I don't know what you've assumed about this post but I'm a guy. If you are actually interested in someone for who they are, try to do good stuff and try not to do bad stuff and respectful you won't have much trouble. Just trying to be a decent human is a universal turn on.
But merely offering, not pushing, assistance, or even less "showboating", letting students in search of help come to them if they want to, isn't disruption or even untoward.
> No, you just to treat women with respect.
We've really come to a point where even the purest romantic intentions (the post talks of wife material, not one night stands) are "disrespectful", have we?