> I don’t know how it compares to anything else, but the variance of the data is what struck me the most.

It is definitely immense, there are unfortunately many people using studies to "prove" things without realizing this variance.

Regrettably, I don't think this is unique to this area. Frankly, as I've delved into being more data/research driven over the years I've become increasingly skeptical of everything.

Hey man good luck! I know some people who have tried and tried. It can be tough. I'm sure you don't need any advice.

Kids are the best, most meaningful thing you will ever do. Its worth it to keep trying.

This is the most Stockholm syndrome thing I’ve read this decade.

Give me a break.

> most meaningful thing you will ever do.

Also by far the hardest. In the best case, it is not all roses.

The most worthwhile things tend to be hard.

I have heard that having children expands the upper and lower bounds of happiness and suffering. There are joys pertaining to being a parent that bring you to heights unimaginable, but there are fears and problems that bring you lower. The range is greater.

You make it sound like it is a heroin shoot.

Actually unless your child has some terrible accident, you're often tired, sometimes angry, but mostly happy.

If your child has no specific issue and you experience terrible sadness and suffering, then you should consult a doctor.

"You're only as happy as your saddest child."

> Kids are the best, most meaningful thing you will ever do.

Just coming in from the other side, but this is not universally true.

Mine has been an absolute nightmare, and I’m in pretty intense therapy trying to keep it all together. My relationship with my wife has been wonderful before and after, so that wasn’t a factor.

I’m not trying to dissuade people from having children, but we were completely unprepared for how challenging ours is. Apparently this isn’t the case for everyone.

The language you use is a bit unclear.

Your kid is a nightmare?

Your kid is challenging?

Your relationship with your wife has been wonderful before and after what? The birth?

I am in a challenging marriage. I have young kids. My kids are wonderful. I am trying to work things out with my wife for my children's sake. I would be careful with the language you use to frame the problems in your life. How you describe your problems may influence what you see as the solutions.

Are you sure it's a problem with your child? Maybe it is a problem with you and your relationships?

Anyways, good choice being in therapy. A competent therapist will help you unravel your problems better than some asshole on hn (that's me).

I wish you the very best. Let’s set a timer for ten years and come back to this thread. I am curious what form our journeys will take and hope this is represented the low point of what is to be a great climb up.

Thank you. I'm a gay man & I'm sick of being told that the most fulfilling and meaningful thing I'll ever do in life is have children; which I cannot do nor do I want to.

Really, our planet could do with fewer people. If people want something fulfilling, they should do whatever makes them happy. That's what fulfilment and contentment is.

My wife and I got married later in life, and we do not have kids, nor will we ever have kids.

I don't regret it. I think I would have been a horrible dad. Only now, as I am in my 50s, do I feel like I might become a person who could have been a good dad, if I had known then what I know now.

So, my kids who were never born, and society at large, are probably better off that my wife and I have never had kids.

Hell, given what's happening in the world today, I think maybe my non-existent kids may also be better off never having been born.

> Kids are the best, most meaningful thing you will ever do.

Heavy dose of "in my opinion..."

Kids are absolutely the last thing I've ever wanted in my lifetime.

Am I supposed to take your statement as I'll never do anything meaningful?

Come on.

> Am I supposed to take your statement as I'll never do anything meaningful?

No, you probably aren't to take that statement that way since the statement never said any such thing. He said "most meaningful" which necessarily implies that there are other meaningful things, just lower in a hierarchy of meaningfulness. Respectfully, you seem quite bitter by reading into what was said, perhaps some introspection about the reason for this reaction would be in order.

Apologies if I read their or your statement incorrectly.

Bitter defined as 'a sense of unjust treatment', is absolutely correct, but 'angry, hurt, or resentful'... nah, none of that.

In fact, quite the opposite, I'm extremely happy about my decision to not have children.

I'm just not a fan of people who think that it is the most meaningful thing I (or anyone else) could ever do.

Actually it depends on what you think is "meaningful". It could be having children, but it also could be discovering a new vaccine, helping other people, or just living a happy life without annoying anyone.

In any case, even if one thinks so, I find it quite rude to say that having a kid is the most meaningful thing you can achieve to someone that may not have children ...

>perhaps some introspection about the reason for this reaction would be in order Perhaps that reason is that many people gay or straight do not want children and being told that our alternative goals aren't the "most" fulfilling ones is pompous and haughty?

You ought to come to terms with and be content with the fact that your sexual lifestyle choices may prevent you from doing things which are more/most fulfilling.

I've known people who've dedicated their life to doing charitable work for low pay, it's extremely fulfilling in a way that I will never experience, but I don't get upset when they say that it's the most fulfilling thing they've done.

>You ought to come to terms with and be content with the fact that your sexual lifestyle choices may prevent you from doing things which are more/most fulfilling. >but I don't get upset when they say that it's the most fulfilling thing they've done. You _almost_ got it, there. The former point doesn't align with the latter; what I'm trying to say is that, sure, for you having a child may be the most fulfilling thing for your life, but for others the most fulfilling may be something else.

Remember, their original statement was "Kids are the best, most meaningful thing you will ever do. Its worth it to keep trying." whereas really they should have said something like "Kids are the best, most meaningful thing I have ever experienced. It's worth it to keep trying."

You really nailed it while perfectly dodging the personal attack.

Many people all over the world suffer because their parents give birth without proper thinking by their parents, for selfish reason (to have meaning themselves).

Do whatever people want with their own life. But when it involves bringing someone else to life without their consent and no going back, there should be some checks and bounds and should not be for selfish reasons.

if I may give you a piece of advice, ask yourself whether you can guarantee that your kid will be happy to have been forced to come to life, or if you are selfishly taking a bet at someone else's expense.

If I may ask, would you have preferred to not come to life, if you had the choice?

I know you are not asking me. But, I would've refused to come to life. Given that, when they ask me the question, I have the same knowledge that I have now or a short trailer about what is life (not specifically mine). Ahah.

I would have chosen not to be born.

People here are privileged, live in a better country, good income etc. Because they have better life, they expect others also to say it's great. Many children are born without proper thinking by their parents, for selfish reason and suffer every day.

As great as it is to have your own biological kids, please consider fostering and/or adopting as well. It can be challenging but also very rewarding, and there is a huge need for that sort of thing. We have two biological kids, fostered for a little while, and ended up adopting a young boy. They are all awesome!

Hi, look into Shettles method. 9 months in I think you can change something within your control.