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Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by jacobsenscott on Thursday January 26, 2023 @12:30PM (#34535090)
The classic formula for hooking up is time and proximity - throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this - they are designed with the exact opposite scenario in mind.

This is why people meet in high school (4 years)/college(4 years)/at the office (40 years). With the move to remote work in many places we've cut off the office part - where people had the most time to find a partner. What replaces that? Nearly everyone I know who is married met in one of those 3 places. I met my wife in the office before remote work was common (today we are both 100% remote).

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by haunter on Thursday January 26, 2023 @12:38PM (#34535260)
And to the list the once more common community places, like church which pretty much disappearing from modern life (at least in the US and Europe). I'm not religious but more and more I think that church as a community place back then had a postive effect on local communites.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by mixmastamyk on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:18PM (#34536091)
Classes at the community college probably more useful these days.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by Qem on Thursday January 26, 2023 @03:40PM (#34538487)
Tried to get back to university as a means to socialize more, in my 30s. It didn't work as intended, because attending classes while holding a day job left very little time for actual socialization with my colleagues. Ended giving up. I think it would have worked better with more free time to invest on it.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by mixmastamyk on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:46PM (#34541063)
Pick easier classes I guess? Less Calc III and more photography and ceramics. Something the target sex is over-represented in.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by Qem on Thursday January 26, 2023 @09:06PM (#34541592)
It's not difficulty level, more like just raw time. Most social interaction occurs while hanging on between classes, while having lunch, paying a visit to the library, et cetera. It doesn't work when you rush in to the class and then rush out back to job soon after. Just hanging around people and getting to know them takes time.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by benj111 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:07PM (#34537031)
So church is a place you can go to hook up and have sex? They seem to be underselling that feature.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by agentwiggles on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:28PM (#34537395)
I'm going to answer assuming you're not being deliberately obtuse: Yes.

Obviously it's not a bar where you're looking for a one night stand or a casual hookup. But churches as a general rule encourage their congregations to get together in a myriad of social settings. So yeah, if you were looking to meet a person who shared similar beliefs and values to you, joining a church would be a pretty decent way to get frequent exposition to those people.

I don't attend a church now, but my parents were heavily involved in our local Catholic church when I was a kid. Not a week went by where I wasn't taken to some sort of social event - fish fries, Sunday 'socials' (i.e. donuts and coffee after mass), volunteering opportunities. Not to mention just general small talk after services.

If you didn't grow up religious, it's really hard to oversell just how much church events are part of your life, and how much the people you meet can become a community for your family. My dad loves to tell a story of how one year they gave a family friend a few hundred dollars around Christmas, because they knew the guy had just lost his job. A few years later, unprompted, they returned the favor, at a time that turned out to be really helpful for my family.

I don't take my family to church but I do really miss the communal aspects of the whole enterprise, and wish there was a good way to get a similar vibe without the aspects of religion I don't like. But I think there is something special about a group of people with a shared commitment to a set of beliefs that makes the upsides of church difficult to replicate in secular settings.

YMMV. Just my own experience and rambling.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by f154hfds on Thursday January 26, 2023 @03:30PM (#34538323)
Thought I'd just say that I met my wife through my church. The above is absolutely the truth, though churches vary enormously in demographics. Get connected to a young church with a 'singles' group and you will meet lots of prospective spouses.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by benj111 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @04:03PM (#34538799)
>I'm going to answer assuming you're not being deliberately obtuse.

Wrong assumption. I was attempting to be humourous. But yes I could see how you could find a life partner at church.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by trevyn on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:30PM (#34540903)
>I don't take my family to church but I do really miss the communal aspects of the whole enterprise, and wish there was a good way to get a similar vibe without the aspects of religion I don't like.

Maybe there's a Unitarian Universalist congregation near you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by agentwiggles on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:41PM (#34541002)
You know, I've always kind of dismissed UU. Not sure why. Having taken a look at the website for our local congregation it actually sounds way better than I've given it credit for. Might have to check it out.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by brightsize on Thursday January 26, 2023 @09:40PM (#34541808)
+1 for UU. I'm not formally a member, but as far as churches go it's one of the few that I know of that atheist me might be able to tolerate. If you would prefer Xian, Jesus-y content with your (still quite-liberal) church, another to consider would be the UUC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Christ . Also Unity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Church . 'Unity describes itself as "for people who might call themselves spiritual but not religious."' If you ever are in the KC area, Unity Village is a nice place to visit, the church has a beautiful campus there.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by thwayunion on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:30PM (#34537430)
Marriage first, at least ostensibly, but yes. Many churches have special small groups/social events for people in prime dating age ranges and those groups are often meat market-y.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by bryanlarsen on Thursday January 26, 2023 @05:00PM (#34539507)
Google "Mormon soaking".
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by brewdad on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:08PM (#34537038)
Even the places where church is still a significant part of the social fabric have trended towards the mega-church format. It’s the difference between trying to get to know someone in your 30 person section course versus the 800 person lecture hall.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by halfnormalform on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:41PM (#34537611)
Unless you're part of the community the church rejected!
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by wonderwonder on Thursday January 26, 2023 @12:37PM (#34535238)
I agree with this, remove school, college and work and what is left? Not much. Maybe a house of worship if you are religous. Remote work while it provides benefits to people; especially those already in a relationship and with kids, has its costs. Online college is an option now.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by konart on Thursday January 26, 2023 @12:58PM (#34535676)
>Not much. Maybe a house of worship

Literature clubs, language classes. Literally any hobbie that does not require you to stay focused on device that may cut off your fingers if you look away.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by avmich on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:27PM (#34536271)
> Literally any hobbie that does not require you to stay focused on device that may cut off your fingers if you look away.

Ugh, last time I checked there's an awful lot of hobbies - a wide range - which requires you just that.

Computers aren't for doing some specific thing. They are for doing pretty much everything - through them.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by lechacker on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:07PM (#34537020)
Trying to "flirt" in those spheres is looked down upon just as ferociously as doing it at the office. Have you not seen the viral TikTok of the woman that was "angry" that some guy was "checking her out" at the gym, while the man was barely paying attention at her at all?
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by ketzo on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:37PM (#34537541)
Treating hobby scenes as pure dating opportunities is definitely looked down on. If you show up to Introductory Spanish and start dropping pick-up lines on strangers, yeah, people are gonna show you the door.

But hobbies are an opportunity for repeated exposure to strangers. Lots and lots and lots of people start casual friendships that can turn into romantic ones.

Using a hobby as a meat market: deeply uncool, and people will notice very quickly.

Using a hobby as a way to meet people, and having one of those relationships turn romantic: totally natural!

It’s a very fine line, yeah, but trust me, it is extremely obvious which one people are doing.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by benj111 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:14PM (#34537128)
Is it? 1 Tik tok video doesn't really prove the point (seems to me it proves the opposite).

Also it depends what you mean by flirting. If you join a class and immediately start trying to pull every person of the opposite sex (or same sex if that's your thing), that just gives the vibe of being there for the wrong reason. If on the other hand you meet someone doing a thing you wanted to do anyway, and a friendship blossoms, that seems to be the point at which you start flirting.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by konart on Thursday January 26, 2023 @03:18PM (#34538141)
I don't use TikTok but I understand the problem. I wasn't talking about visiting those places just to pick up a partner. I was talking about opporunities provided by a place were you are basically forced into communication.

The hardest part in any relationship (at least if you are a shy person without much of experience) is to start talking. It's much easier to talk to someone if you already know each other. Work\clubs etc - provide a great ground for a first step(s)

Obviously people will turn away from you if you just came by to flirt.

>as ferociously as doing it at the office

People always flirt in the office thouth. In many cases they do this naturally and even without any thought about any kind of continuation. In many cases they are in a relationship even.

Flirtin is not only about sex, in fact it is more about sharing with other people "youtube pickup masters")

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by wonderwonder on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:46PM (#34537678)
These are all valid options but they result in a much smaller pool of potential matches. Colleges depending on the size have tens of thousands of potential matching opportunities. These are further enhanced by the social nature of college. Work while a smaller pool provides repeated exposure to people under a long time frame. Clubs and individual classes provide a very reduced pool of potential mates under a stricter timeline to establish a match. I am not arguing that what you are saying is wrong and indeed they are far superior than just sitting at home checking your tinder profile each day. They are just difficult and are more challenging with lower odds. Probably equal opportunity to just hit the gym for a few months, do what you can to work on your individual attractiveness and go to a bar a couple times a week. At least then there are better odds that the people there are looking for a match as well.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by Yizahi on Thursday January 26, 2023 @06:33PM (#34540379)
The problem with hobby relationships is not only that it is just awkward in the first place as people said above. The other significant problem is that hobbies are long term activity. Say you sign up for a club/class/sports team and you genuinely interested in that activity. You meet 10-15 new people, and lets say there are no single people of opposite gender. Now what? Cancel your kayaking club after few weeks and sign for the hiking club? Then if that one is a wash too, cancel and move to learning chess? Etc.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by robjan on Thursday January 26, 2023 @08:51PM (#34541497)
In the case you're describing, the hypothetical person is going into the hobby for the wrong reason. The primary objective should be the hobby, if you happen to find someone you get on well with all the better.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by langitbiru on Thursday January 26, 2023 @10:16PM (#34542038)
I understand your point. But the original premise is to find a relationship via hobby. Then some said it's wrong. You should have a hobby because of the hobby itself. People looking for relationships in hobbies would be a turnoff.

So the original question is how people find relationships IRL (outside dating apps). Some answer just get a hobby. But then the same problem remains as you can see.

The same thing can be applied for working in an office. People do get relationships in an office but you would be a turnoff if you said you're looking for a relationship when applying for a job.

So for people looking for relationships primarily, what should they do outside dating apps? Or should they just repress their desire and live their life? If they meet one in hobbies or offices, great! If not, c'est la vie.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by agent008t on Friday January 27, 2023 @07:05AM (#34545115)
The idea is that romantic relationships are a side-effect, pursuing them head-on is often the wrong approach. It is better to set up your life in a way that makes them more likely, and to forget about them being any sort of goal.

So yes, get hobbies that you are genuinely interested in, but cultivate ones that can be pursued in a more social way and that have a decent representation of the demographic you're interested in. Then be open and friendly, but don't actively look for romance. Get the rest of your life in order in that manner and it'll happen as a side-effect.

The problem of course is that it is easier done in certain cultures and environments than others. E.g. probably much easier in some slower university town in continental Europe than in some busy car-centric US city. Also easier if you have a more relaxed working life than a busy career with only barely enough free time to eat and sleep. And if people are generally are more open and social and are not all holed in in their apartments online.

Arguably, in a lot of the developed world the culture and the environment has become very unconducive for such things, especially in the last 15 years. Watching older European movies from the 70s, you can really see how much things have changed.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by tasuki on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:36PM (#34536431)
> remove school, college and work and what is left? Not much.

What is left? Literally every other social activity one engages in?

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by jacobsenscott on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:53PM (#34536758)
But where do you find people to form clubs or whatever with? Work/school/office. Also covid wiped a lot of these out and it will take some time for them to re-appear
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by tasuki on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:00PM (#34536904)
I have hobbies. Highly recommended!
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by jacobsenscott on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:08PM (#34537039)
I had hobbies, now I have kids. But when I did have hobbies where did I meet people to hobby with? Work!
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by voviz on Thursday January 26, 2023 @03:20PM (#34538182)
Just for reference, what hobbies do you participate in?
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by autoexec on Thursday January 26, 2023 @04:10PM (#34538884)
If you can't find people for your hobby and just want to meet others consider volunteering.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by WarOnPrivacy on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:00PM (#34536896)
> What is left? Literally every other social activity one engages in?

This implies one has energy and resources for social activities. A big chunk of the US is broke and/or exhausted at the end of the week.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by bryanlarsen on Thursday January 26, 2023 @05:03PM (#34539542)
The other suggested alternative (religion) generally requires a far higher time + money commitment than many hobbies, yet has thrived for millennia.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by WarOnPrivacy on Friday January 27, 2023 @10:04PM (#34554706)
For millennia, most people weren't busy sustaining the family during ~all waking hours and year round (all the while living 1 not-rare event away from homelessness).
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by bryanlarsen on Friday January 27, 2023 @10:44PM (#34554912)
No, instead most of humanity was living one not rare event away from starvation and/or one not rare event away from death by violence or misadventure.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by seydor on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:20PM (#34536118)
> throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this

I would contest this. Don't apps do exactly this, on a global scale? They bring people closer at all times, have regularity, and even have silly competitions, self-promotion , and all ways for people to 'hook up' with each other.

Of course, in any physical space there is only a limited amount of people so competition is lower and possibly that s why there are more compromises. in a global contest only the olympic athletes win.

And while remote work is certainly going to be a huge factor, things have changed a whole decade before remote work became mainstream

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by Manuel_D on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:29PM (#34536291)
Apps do bring people together, but by aggregating potential partners in a large area most matches go to the top 10-20% of men. In person, women are a lot less selective. So the absence of in person venues to meet partners really curbs opportunities for most men.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by godelski on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:34PM (#34536395)
What the parent is really talking about is that people in close proximity for extended periods are going through shared experiences. If you spend time with people and experience similar things then you will start to form emotional bonds with them. The parent could have also replaced partners with friends and the statement would hold true for the same reasons.

On the other hand, let's do the same analogy and replace partners with friends for the goals of apps. I think it would be obvious to many that these wouldn't be good platforms to build strong friendships on. If Tinder is the equivalent of asking someone out at a bar it is also similar to approaching someone at a bar and asking them to be your best friend. It might happen, but odds likely aren't in your favor, and especially not if you're not someone that likes to go bar hopping.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by seydor on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:53PM (#34536765)
I was thinking of social networks mostly. Tinder is an antisocial, hookup app
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by godelski on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:04PM (#34536971)
I honestly don't believe that social networks bring us closer together. They can, but in practice they don't. Instead I believe they give us the illusion of feeling closer and more involved, but that is likely cognitive dissonance (akin to thinking ChatGPT is smart because it speaks). The only way to build relationships is through shared experiences. This can be done online btw, but these experiences are not doing things like liking peoples posts or occasionally commenting in threads. They involved personal and/or group conversations/activities. That's why you're more likely to find friends playing videogames online than through a social network (assuming pure online).
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by avmich on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:25PM (#34536218)
> I would contest this. Don't apps do exactly this, on a global scale? They bring people closer at all times, have regularity, and even have silly competitions, self-promotion , and all ways for people to 'hook up' with each other.

No. "Same place" means here "same people, repeatedly over prolonged periods of time". Dating apps are, AFAIK, not making same people to keep in contact "until the spark comes".

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by dangond on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:25PM (#34536210)
I think they were talking specifically about dating apps. You either go on a date right away or never talk to the person again. There is no room to slowly build a relationship after "bumping into each other" over time.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by OkayPhysicist on Thursday January 26, 2023 @02:42PM (#34537624)
In large scale social networks, you're interacting with a lot of different people, relatively superficially. In contrast, if you have a relatively small group that spends a lot of time together, close relationships will form. An example is the Discord server I'm on (started off as an invite-only Among Us group, ended up just a general group of decently vetted friends who play games together), in which several relationships have formed (with the downside of there being an inconvenient amount of distance between parties, but plane tickets aren't that expensive).
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by johnea on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:27PM (#34536248)
You left out one of the main components of the classic formula: time, proximity and ALCOHOL!

Reduction in inhibition is the main reason alcohol is so beloved in society. Otherwise, most people don't get laid...

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by godelski on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:28PM (#34536289)
> /at the office (40 years). With the move to remote work in many places we've cut off the office part

There might be another factor here, that office relationships are far more taboo than they used to be. I'm not saying harass your office mates, but if two people click they click. Like you're saying, it isn't that the office is a place "to look" for a partner, but rather that it simply happens because you build emotional bonds with people you spend time with and have shared experiences with.

Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by zozbot234 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:37PM (#34536446)
The problem is not what happens when two people click, but what if the relationship goes south. Do you really want that former partner you might hate as your coworker, or your boss? Or your subordinate, whom you're required to treat fairly, as a matter of basic business ethics? How many people would manage to achieve this and be trusted to?
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by jacobsenscott on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:48PM (#34536672)
Meh - people often have bosses, or coworkers, or subordinates they hate anyway. Nothing ventured nothing gained!
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by godelski on Thursday January 26, 2023 @01:55PM (#34536790)
In addition to what Jacob said, it is also an important social skill to learn to interact with people you have bad blood with. There is a sign of maturity to not run away from your problems. That's all this is doing really. As long as the two people aren't forced to have frequent and sustained close proximity (working together on the same projects) then this shouldn't be an issue.
Re:Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? by pm90 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @06:44PM (#34540498)
> The classic formula for hooking up is time and proximity - throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this - they are designed with the exact opposite scenario in mind.

Yes, 100% this is correct. Proximity is everything. When people "bump" into each other frequently, they are more likely to start conversations, more likely to get to know each other, and naturally, hook up.

This is why the "third place" concept is so important. Home is the 1st, Office 2nd, but you generally need another place where people just hang out. This might be a community pool, garden, plaza etc. Somewhat more restricted 3rd places are coffeeshops, bars, art galleries, museums, libraries etc.

I believe that cities that want to attract people should invest heavily in creating these places. e.g. Austin built a First Class public library; I was extremely skeptical about that investment, but when the library opened, its a work of art!