Please don't post flamebait or unsubstantive comments. We're trying for something else here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Apologies, I was going for a WVR-BVR kind of joke but I see how that neither worked nor was really the place for it.

In Ukraine today an entire Russian Air Force might be shot down by a nerf gun (aided of course by Putin’ led decades of systemic corruption allowing the planes to become unusable for their intended purpose).

Yet Russia keeps running sorties and plane based missile launches with impunity.

Please consider balancing out your news with sources other than reddit and twitter.

They’re not really wrong. One of the most astonishing things about this war is how the Russian Air Force is incapable of establishing air superiority against a country like Ukraine.

I think that, while true, that's a different matter. The inability of the Russian Air Force to establish air superiority is not necessarily related to dogfighting losses. As far as I know, Ukraine currently doesn't have much of an air force either.

I don't think Russian combat airplanes are being shot down with "nerf guns" either. For whatever reason, they haven't been able to establish superiority, but how does this relate to dogfighting skills?

A big factor is Ukraine still had a number of Soviet made S-300s and older Buks. Those things are very effective and can shoot down even modern aircraft, including Russian ones.

And remember, Ukraine is the largest country in Europe and the most armed and well trained. They are not Iraq or Vietnam.

Soviet air defense seems to be quite effective against soviet aircraft. I think Ukraine had a decent stockpile of that equipment, but they also got shipments of similar soviet made equipment from neighbors.

They are launching a lot of those air-launched missiles from within russian territory.

Yes, but OP implied that the planes aren't maintained. But the proof is in the pudding. Somehow they're still getting off the ground and launching their payloads.

Provide the counter balance sources please.

Western sources have reported over and over that Ukrainian air defense is severally degraded and their airforce is basically non-existent since early on. And that Russia has lobbed many Kh-22's and other ballistics from their Tu-22s and Mig-21s.

There's a reason Ukrainian leadership is asking for F-16s and Patriot missiles defense system now. I know its fun to imagine otherwise, but this is a time for maturity and realism about the threat, this is not call of duty - real people are dying.

Only amateurs and fools underestimate their enemy. Arrogance and incompetency gets people killed in war.

F-16's make sense, they are combat effective.

Patriot missiles make less sense. They are crap. The only redeeming value to provide Patriots is to deplete inventory.

They have no training or experience flying F-16s. They wouldn't be able to maintain and repair the jets either without training and parts from the US.

Patriots draw fire. If the Russians are focused on nullifying the patriots, then chances of Russian missiles hitting something further back are lower.

> Western sources have reported over and over that Ukrainian air defense is severally degraded and their airforce is basically non-existent since early on.

I don't know in which West do you live, but around here, the Ukrainans are the best. But they just need more weapons. /s

The Tu-22s and a lot of the russian planes that are launching the missiles don't enter Ukrainian airspace. They stay in Belorussian, russian or international airspace in the black sea, and launch the missiles while staying out of the range of Ukrainian defenses.