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Re:A flurry of new studies identifies causes of the Industri... by Merrill on Tuesday January 17, 2023 @11:50PM (#34423542)
Slaves/serfs make economic sense primarily on a plantation/manor where they can be given use of a small plot where they construct a shelter and raise their own food. They receive little or no subsidies from the planter/lord.

The difference is that serfs are attached to the manor instead of being owned by the planter. Thus, serfs are not sold, but change lords by inheritance, marriage, or other changes in land rights. Europe was so densely populated that serfs probably had little or no cash value. If you had a manor, you already had serfs.

Re:A flurry of new studies identifies causes of the Industri... by fsckboy on Wednesday January 18, 2023 @02:20AM (#34424251)
>The difference is that serfs are attached to the manor instead of being owned by the planter

just want to point out (though I'm not an expert) attaching serfs to the land was a step forward in serf rights. I think (particularly in eastern europe), serfs didn't necessarily have the right to stay on the land.

Re:A flurry of new studies identifies causes of the Industri... by wahern on Wednesday January 18, 2023 @04:57AM (#34425046)
I recently learned this, myself. Comparisons of slavery with serfdom are usually dismissed (understandably) as comparing apples and oranges, minimizing the harshness and depravity of chattel slavery in the Americas, and even interpreted as an attempt to minimize or at least distract from European and European-American culpability in the American slave trade by appropriating victimhood status. But in parts of the Russian Empire (in Europe, not Asia--though perhaps Asia, too?) there were serf markets well into the 19th century, notwithstanding laws that nominally prohibited the sale of serfs. Many immigrants to the Americas were surely not far removed from those circumstances, if not having fled them directly. So just on a purely factual basis, there indeed was chattel slavery in Europe of Europeans, ending not long before chattel slavery in the Americas--1888 in Brazil. That fact doesn't refute the latter criticisms, though. (And it also glosses over the fact that Slavic peoples weren't really considered "white" by most Western Europeans. Heck, even today that distinction lingers, detectable in the sentiments undergirding Brexit, e.g. in resentment of Polish laborers.)

Somewhat related, chattel slavery remained a thing in the Ottoman Empire well into the 20th century, albeit substantially diminished; and not completely outlawed until mid century. And I guess this is where a lot of white slavery hysteria in the U.S. originated[1], as in the Middle East owning Circassian slaves had long been a status symbol, so much so that over the centuries they significantly effected the genetics of ruling elite families through their popularity in harems. Circassians were literally the archetype for "white" in Hitler's Aryan racial system, so the trade in Circassians represented the epitome of white slavery. Though, perhaps the real horror regarding the Circassians is the Circassian Genocide at the hands of the Russians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide Sadly, when you delve into the history of ethnic cleaning by Russians, there are sadly many more stories like that.

[1] As opposed to the capture and sale of white Americans and Europeans by North African pirates. That's where I used to think the hysteria came from, but reading about the history of the Circassians, I suspect that's the real origin, or at least the more important dimension.