News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by hammock on Saturday January 14, 2023 @04:56PM (#34384539)
> Over 75% of life on earth is behind us (4.2bn years)

What do you mean by this? Are you predicting that life on earth can only last for another 1.4 billion years? What extinction event is so certain in the next 400m-800m years?

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by galangalalgol on Saturday January 14, 2023 @04:59PM (#34384564)
The increased output of the growing sun will (ironically) sequester all the co2 due to weathering processes of certain rocks. Then there will be no plants. It won't take long after that.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by twoodfin on Saturday January 14, 2023 @05:08PM (#34384618)
There isn’t that much CO2 in the atmosphere. This is obviously a WAG, but I’d suppose that the planet-scale geoengineering required to maintain plant-friendly CO2 levels in that changed solar environment would be at least as feasible as developing a sustainable, coherent interstellar civilization.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by XorNot on Saturday January 14, 2023 @06:00PM (#34384984)
See this great article of wikipedia[1] (warning: potentially depressing). The problem is that it's not just one problem, it's a whole bundle of them happening simultaneously. It's not just that CO2 is being taken out of the atmosphere and into rocks, it's that the oceans are evaporating entirely at the same time.

Though you are quite right that this is potentially solvable for us: lagrange point sunshields to manage solar incidence would buy us a lot of extra time. But it's still hundreds of millions of years - not billions.

500 million years from now, we're fighting a losing battle against the sun's death.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by hparadiz on Saturday January 14, 2023 @06:29PM (#34385164)
I'm not so sure that estimate makes sense. It's kind of hand wavy. The sun's output will increase 1 percent every 100 million years. So even at 108% of what it is today in 800m years that doesn't seem like it's enough to lock all the CO2 in the rocks. But let's say for the sake of argument that CO2 does start being sequestered.... well it's a greenhouse gas so as it is removed from the atmosphere... the atmosphere should actually cool down. Plus Earth has self cooling mechanisms that work against an increase in solar radiation. For example Volcanic eruptions and your basic water cycle. More energy would create more moisture in the atmosphere and in turn more cloud cover blocking out the sun. If the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere was way less even at 108% of the sun's output the atmosphere could remain cold so I think a new equilibrium will develop and be sustained for quite some time.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by 867-5309 on Saturday January 14, 2023 @06:17PM (#34385090)
sorry, but in a millennium or two we will possess the technology to travel at an appreciable percentage of the speed of light

in the next million years (let alone hundreds) humans will have populated most of the galaxy

that is, if we survive climate change

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by Andrew_nenakhov on Saturday January 14, 2023 @06:25PM (#34385143)
There is an absolute certainty that climate change will not make human race extinct. If we die out, it'll be because of some other disaster.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by Tagbert on Saturday January 14, 2023 @09:58PM (#34386362)
The largest risk to humans of climate change is the stress it will put on civilizations and the potential for war from that. If that stress triggered an all out nuclear war, it could make humans extinct.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by gumby on Sunday January 15, 2023 @12:07AM (#34386894)
It seems likely we will remove most or more likely all the vertebrates. There won't be significant long term damage beyond that (e.g. the coral will suffer but will grow back probably in less than a My) and the planet will do just fine.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by Andrew_nenakhov on Sunday January 15, 2023 @04:41AM (#34388133)
> or more likely all the vertebrates

Don't worry, it won't be all. Cats will be doing just fine.

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by dheera on Saturday January 14, 2023 @06:58PM (#34385345)
Right.

Personally, barring nuclear or bio warfare, I'm quite confident we can figure out how to geoengineer the Earth AND settle into Mars within 500 million years, considering we've come from cavemen to today's technology in only 10000-50000 years.

What worries me is actually after about 3 or 4 billion, where no level of geoengineering can make any of the inner planets of the solar system habitable, and with the red giant sun spewing out chunks of burning crap all over, Jupiter's and Saturn's moons aren't particularly safe either.

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by yreg on Saturday January 14, 2023 @08:16PM (#34385789)
Space megastructures are probably easier and faster to build than terraforming Mars. With the added benefit of not jumping into another gravity well.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by dheera on Sunday January 15, 2023 @01:24PM (#34391646)
Hmm how do you repair those megastructures without a planet that you can mine resources (metal, silicon, ...) from?
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by LargoLasskhyfv on Sunday January 15, 2023 @03:28PM (#34392987)
Asteroids.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by m4rtink on Sunday January 15, 2023 @12:06AM (#34386886)
If you are still sitting in just the Solar System in a milion years, let alone thousand, something went horribly wrong. Or we got some interesting neighbors. ;-)
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by r3trohack3r on Sunday January 15, 2023 @04:00PM (#34393326)
> cavemen to today's technology in only 10000-50000 years.

Honestly more impressive is us shedding the 4 element theory of nature and the infallible ancient knowledge of Greece in the mid 1600’s (The Sceptical Chymist was published in 1661). We went from a fairly static view of knowledge to seriously considering colonizing mars in 400 or so years. Human growth isn’t linear and we are pretty far to the right on an exponential curve. The thing about sitting on an exponential curve as far to the right as we are is a few steps (a few 100 years) can easily eclipse the total sum of all human progress so far.

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by Retric on Saturday January 14, 2023 @07:20PM (#34385465)
Eventually the oceans will boil, but wikipedia links to paper evaluating the atmosphere in “1 Gyr and 2.8 Gyr from present” or 1 to 2.8 billion years not 500. It’s suggesting that life should stick around on earth for ~2.8 billion years though the total number of living cells will noticeably start to decline at 1 billion years. https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.4841

In general it would take a very large change in the suns output to make a noticeable difference on earth. There are critical secondary effects and feedback loops etc, but black body radiation is T^4 so you take the square root of the square root of the increase in output. A 5% increase in output should be something like a 1.2% increase in temperature kelvin.

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by XorNot on Saturday January 14, 2023 @07:36PM (#34385567)
It's not that it happens at 500 million years, it's that it starts happening - i.e. it's not that the ocean's boil, it's that the rate of evaporation increases, which exposes more rock, which increases weathering etc.

It's a pile of problems related to a common cause (increase solar radiance) that steadily is on a single definite trend.

Put it another way: at 288 Kelvin the partial pressure of water vapor is ~1.7 kPa. At 294K it's ~2.5 kPa. That's a 47% increase (naively). And that line trends upwards only.

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by Retric on Saturday January 14, 2023 @07:42PM (#34385596)
What matters is what happens to the water in the atmosphere not the oceans surface. Evaporation requires energy, it cools the surface of the oceans and needs to be driven by sunlight heating that surface, rain is the reverse it heats clouds which then radiate that energy to space.

To boil the oceans you would need the upper atmosphere to retain that moisture or you just get more weather not net evaporation. 1 inch of rainfall represents a shocking amount of energy flow.

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by marcosdumay on Saturday January 14, 2023 @08:39PM (#34385936)
We have emitted more than the original amount of CO2 in a bit more than a century. Since it would take tens or hundreds of thousands of years for it to be all absorbed by the ground, yes, I think whoever is here in 1.4G years will do just fine.

Of course, there are other disasters to come after that one.

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by gumby on Sunday January 15, 2023 @12:04AM (#34386878)
1.4 Gy is enough time to make more fossil fuel, as it is a renewable resource on that time scale.
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by r3trohack3r on Saturday January 14, 2023 @04:59PM (#34384560)
Less than 1.4Bn. AFAIK the carbon cycle grinds to a halt in 400M-800M years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future
Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by Rury on Saturday January 14, 2023 @11:26PM (#34386717)
That whole thing is highly dubious, and reads like a slippery slope argument.

Like one, there's a limit on how much water can exist as vapor in our atmosphere, (which is far, far less than what the earth's oceans hold), up until the point of boiling. This is conventionally known known as the saturation point, which is 100% relative humidity. Anytime you try to go above this limit, forces the water to condense and drop down back to the oceans as liquid. So the oceans aren't going to evaporate out to being dry like it predicts unless global temperatures rise by an extreme amount - quite likely requiring boiling temperatures, but in any case, extreme enough that life would likely be dead from the temperature alone. So its subsequent reasoning on how photosynthesis ends is not likely how it will play out.

Additionally, it ignores that CO2 is made by animals, and O2 is made by plants, and therefore, the entire possibility of having a natural carbon cycle without volcanism. Never mind the fact that we currently have climate change tech that produces CO2 already, and if we survive that long, could easily prevent photosynthesis from ending in such a way.

Re:NASA’s Double Asteroid Redirection Test Is a Smashing Suc... by dheera on Saturday January 14, 2023 @06:53PM (#34385315)
The sun will be 10% brighter in 1 billion years, which is enough to evaporate all the oceans. Life will be gone MUCH earlier than that, unless we can terraform the Earth to not contain all that heat.

And that's without any human-created CO2.