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Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by rayiner on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @07:36PM (#34347367)
> Earlier in July, Sowmyanarayan Sampath took over as the CEO of Verizon Business and Jayathi Murthy became the President of Oregon State University–the first woman of color to take this position.

This is why I don’t answer to “person of color.” Indian Americans have nearly double the median white income. They live almost 8 years longer than white Americans. (Heck, Asian women make more money than white men, while Asian men live longer than white women.) Even the ones that grow up here in poverty have vastly higher income mobility as adults than whites. What clarity or insight is gained by grouping them together with other minorities suffering from generational poverty? In fact if the goal is helping people, it would make way more sense to include folks like Appalachians and Cajuns, who also suffer from generational poverty. That might give you real insight into root causes.

And when white people use the label, it’s offensive as fuck. “We are going to group you together with people you have nothing in common with economically, historically, or culturally, because you’re all ‘coloreds’ to us!”

Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by farnsworth on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @07:55PM (#34347561)
> “We are going to group you together with people you have nothing in common with economically, historically, or culturally, because you’re all ‘coloreds’ to us!”

Don't you think it's _describing_ this grouping, not _prescribing_ it? The truth is that racism isn't rational or know what your net worth is.

Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by mindover on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @08:46PM (#34347968)
How is it describing it though? What does a white-looking immigrant Brazilian of European ancestry have in common with a Native American? How does labeling both as PoC address any inequality?
Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by xyzzyz on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @10:56PM (#34348990)
Funnily enough, according to official government racial classification scheme, the white looking immigrant Brazilian of European ancestry from your example is a non-Hispanic white, whereas native Spaniard immigrant from actual Spain is Hispanic white.
Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by rayiner on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @11:11PM (#34349096)
The federal government in its brilliance categorizes Afghani refugees as white and ineligible for, e.g., special small business loans, but categorizes Brahmin Indians as colored people eligible for such loans.
Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by mindover on Thursday January 12, 2023 @12:38AM (#34349620)
There is way more to race classification than the government classification. Talking to people, selecting the right choice in a questionnaire, applying for a job - no one is verifying person’s ancestry. If you are from Brazil you are a PoC by default, unless you object.
Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by rayiner on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @09:13PM (#34348224)
It could be merely descriptive, if you only came across it when e.g. discussing people who can get away with skipping the sun screen. When it’s the category that gets brought up in the newspaper when someone becomes CEO, instead of myriad other categories that could apply, then it’s prescriptive. It is a pattern that shapes how non-white people are perceived and gives primacy to their skin color.

Your point about “racism” illustrates how focusing on skin color leads you astray from the outset. There is no single coherent thing called “racism” that applies to all “people of color.” Indian Americans face the ordinary prejudices people of different ethnic groups have towards each other. It’s the same prejudices Indians have towards Chinese or vice versa. Jewish people almost certainly face more prejudice in America than Indian Americans. We acknowledge that prejudice, but don’t go so far as to categorize and define them based on it.

Meanwhile, the “racism” faced by ADOS and indigenous people is different in kind. The prejudice is just the tip of an iceberg, and beneath that are the realities of being a minority population that was enslaved and brought to this country by the majority population or one that was nearly wiped out by the majority population in settling the country. The point is not that “racism” knows how rich you are. The point is that “racism” that isn’t accompanied by structural socioeconomic disparities isn’t meaningfully the same thing as “racism” that is.

And it’s not useful to any minorities to conflate these categories. Thinking in terms of “people of color” is bad for black and indigenous people. Because fixing prejudice based on skin color won’t meaningfully help them. At the same time, it’s not good for Indian Americans to falsely believe they face structural disparities when they do not.

Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by mindover on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @08:54PM (#34348028)
I know I am not in a position to complain (I am a “white” European) but I would be furious if I was so often grouped into a completely arbitrary race/ethnicity/skin color/country of birth based group and made assumptions about.

I have never met a single European who would differentiate between a Portuguese and a German based on their skin color. But if that Portuguese person moves to the US they are suddenly a PoC and a victim of white oppression.

Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by okokwhatever on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @10:10PM (#34348686)
Amen
Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by rhino369 on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @11:38PM (#34349275)
Portuguese don’t count a PoC. Unless their ancestors moved to Brazil—then they count.
Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by mindover on Thursday January 12, 2023 @12:43AM (#34349656)
Don’t count where? If a person looks like they are from a warmer region and speaks Portuguese - unless they object - they will be classified as a PoC by most people in the US. Maybe the government disagrees but that is relevant only in very few specific situations.

Also, if their parents moved to Brazil in the 1960s they somehow became a PoC? Does the actual ancestry matter or are we just assuming that everyone who is not from Europe is a PoC?

Re:Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoff... by rhino369 on Thursday January 12, 2023 @01:55AM (#34350098)
Americans don't consider Portuguese from Portugal to be non-white. Nobody calls Devin Nunes a POC, for example. They consider Brazilians to be people of color even if they are pureblood Portuguese, which is absurd. But that's how it works.

>Does the actual ancestry matter or are we just assuming that everyone who is not from Europe is a PoC?

Somehow the people who successfully colonized latin america get grouped in as marginalized because its too hard to do a color shade test or a blood quantum test.

Race isn't scientific. Even less so when you collapse the whole world into two races. White and not-white.