Tortured. (The fact that I.R. of Iran routinely tortures political prisoners is beyond dispute.) No legal representation. No due process. Closed court. What else do you need to know?
> Anyways, as for freedom of women, what if it was all based on specious reasons?
Inform yourself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34274917
She was not the first innocent to be cut down in the flower of her youth. Our dear Jian Mahsa Amini's death in custody of the criminal state is not why Iranian are resolved to dispatch the theocratic regime "to the pages of history".
> I think people lose their sense and reason when it comes to such a vague concept like “freedom”? Freedom to what, from what, for what?
Freedom from oppression. Freedom from violent men and women in thrall of their own misunderstanding and entirely impervious to reason, common sense, decency, who insist at the pain of torture and death that others submit to their ignorance. Sufficient and frankly a demanding reason to motivate any sensible human being.
We Iranians have made a determination. The Islamic Republic must go.
> The reality of things is always different than what people think in the US, this is what traveling has taught me.
"Other"? Your travels have convinced you that there is no such thing as human being possessing of rights and deserving of respect divorced from local considerations.
Hear then the words of a poet saint of these "others", these Iranians, whose heroic struggle you seek to diminish and discount:
Human Beings are members of a whole
In creation of one essence and soul
If one member is inflected with pain
Other members uneasy will remain
If you have no sympathy for human pain
You have no claim to the name Human Being.
I do not base my beliefs in these matters on assumptions, I require proof. He may have been denied fair trial, but he may also have committed murder. He says he is innocent, but the court finds a different view; what more is there to say?
> She was not the first innocent to be cut down in the flower of her youth.
so how did she really die? Beaten? Strangled? Tortured? Heart condition? The details of the case matter because if people just protest on assumptions, they may not reflect the reality of the case (see George Floyd in the US who also had precipitating factors of substances in his body in addition to suffocation). That is, the upheavals and outcry could be based on a lie, and when a society accepts a lie as the basis for “change” they’ve already caused great harm.
> Sufficient and frankly a demanding reason to motivate any sensible human being
How about maintaining peace instead of agitating the authorities? There is so much worse that can result, innocents will die, violence will be unleashed in society, and what are the odds of success and who will repatriate the losses? Rebellion for the sake of rebellion is hardly a good reason.
Anyways, I don’t find sympathy with people who want to undress themselves. Who are in much better conditions than many worldwide. Not that the government is any better for its violence. But it is true some of the “protesters” also behave violently.
> We Iranians have made a determination. The Islamic Republic must go
Which “we”? To suppose to speak for the entire country, is quite presumptuous and silences voices that have not been amplified in popular media. Does “we” seek to impose their own power on the other people of Iran? Replicating the regime “we” sought to replace.
> whose heroic struggle you seek to diminish and discount:
I don’t believe taking off a hijab is heroic. This is a distortion picked up in social media, crafted by both internal and external influences that seek to paint a propagandistic narrative.
I can sympathize with innocent people being harmed and killed. I can sympathize with the anger at oppression. But I do not find sympathy in throwing a country into chaos and endangering countless lives, for little positive potential impact.
As the previous author wrote, we know nothing about what really happened and the first victim in the information war between the West and Iran is the truth.
This has absolutely -nothing- to do with the “West”. Those tropes do not work anymore. No amount of whataboutism will whitewash the crimes of I.R. against Iran.
You claimed "Iranians want X". I asked you who made you a representative of Iranians. You - of course - failed to answer and come up with a BS reply.
As a member of Iranian diaspora, my deep conviction is that decisions regarding the removal of this national & spiritual abomination from Iran and its future political orientation are primarily in the hands of Iranians who have lived and continue to reside in occupied Iran. Per your stated personal family sketch, you should be well familiar with Bahareh Hedayati who addressed the issue of violence in context of revolution in her letter from Evin. She is not alone in declaring that there remains no possibility of reforming the abomination, and as you must know, she is merely one out of thousands of the best of Iranians who are now held, illegally, in dungeons of the occupying regime of the so-called Islamic Republic. If you wish to discuss the mechanics of revolution and what is or is not acceptable, it would be best to direct your thoughts to those quarters. As it is, your comment in HN casting shade using "violence" seems 'misplaced'.
I don’t support the government in charge there. However the peace OP brings up in their other comment is extremely important, They tell us every other month they want to attack Iran, they literally did so three times in 20th century, and twice in 19th (and much worse when including russia, which was aligned with the english against the french).
Iran has not initiated any war since 1820s, and was neutral in both world wars. People die in wars.
Anyways, as for freedom of women, what if it was all based on specious reasons? We do not know the true nature of Mahsa Amini’s death. And is all this chaos and problems people cause and their giver through fighting, is this really preferable?
I think people lose their sense and reason when it comes to such a vague concept like “freedom”? Freedom to what, from what, for what? The alternatives are not always better and the costs of upheaval bear their brunt on the most vulnerable. And much of Iran has shown their support for their laws and beliefs, as much as the online world would wish to paint a different picture.
Anyways, this is to say, I think it is always interesting how we look at the “Other” and make assumptions based on our own biases and those of the ones we are around online and in-person. The reality of things is always different than what people think in the US, this is what traveling has taught me.