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Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by dmitrygr on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @08:41PM (#34156483)
Well, so far they only promised to. So, probably it’ll be done the same way that Teslas could self drive, across the county, unassisted in 2017
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by daydream on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @08:48PM (#34156538)
> Well, so far they only promised to.

Apple’s solution works today. Consumers are using it.

This is mentioned in the article.

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by pests on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @08:54PM (#34156583)
Apple's solution is making use of special features in the radio package. The post states unmodified phones.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by bee_rider on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @09:29PM (#34156840)
Still, the fact that Apple has figured out the weird RF voodoo already makes it seem like a less ridiculous proposition.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by pests on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @10:44PM (#34157305)
Qualcomm is the one who has figured out the weird RF voodoo you speak of. Apple is just consuming that.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by markus_zhang on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @11:38PM (#34157595)
Is there any tech manual out there? Would love to see how it works.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by tshaddox on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @11:39PM (#34157602)
I always assumed the main thing with satellite messengers was that they transmit with much higher power. Not that such a system is easy to design, but the “voodoo” mentioned previously was more about achieving compatibility with an existing RF system at much longer ranges than the system was designed for.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by shaklee3 on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @01:12AM (#34158007)
it's not rf voodoo. it's a highly spread signal at an extremely low nitrate. this has been common for communications satellites for a very long time.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by spookthesunset on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @09:27PM (#34156830)
Apples solution is in SOS emergency situations only. It is extremely limited in what you can transmit—which near as I can tell is just a well defined message format.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by kalupa on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @08:54PM (#34156588)
except the article mentions specifically that Apple is partnered with Globalstar, not Starlink, for their emergency services functionality
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by la64710 on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @10:37PM (#34157255)
And except that it actually saved someone’s life
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by makeitdouble on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @09:45PM (#34156941)
Apple’s solution is to have you find the signal and manually point to it to send a very small payload on a very slow link.

If we’re looking for existing technology, current actually working GPS phones would be a better showcase of what’s possible.

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by bombolo on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @04:43AM (#34159243)
You know how slow unassisted GPS is?
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by martyvis on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @10:15PM (#34157115)
It's strange that you think that this is so unachievable yet we have things like Bluetooth, WiFi, LoRa and regular cell phone all working with relatively tiny amounts of power and discriminating from the noise generated by other nonparticipants. This would amaze anyone from before the 70s.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by pontilanda on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @10:55PM (#34157360)
What? My wifi barely reaches the other side of my room with a wall in between, how am I supposed to think 350 miles is within reason? Even with clear sky, your signal to a tower an order of magnitude closer would be unusable.

If you look at apple’s latest feature, even them, with specific hardware probably, requires minutes of open-sky pointing directly at the closest satellite, to transmit mere bytes of data.

That tells me that if your phone is just hanging in your pocket, indoors, with a 5G nearby, it’s not going to reach the satellite at in any shape or form.

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by martyvis on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @11:38PM (#34157596)
I know nothing of your own situation, but having personally deployed fully working and operational WiFi for a 10000 plus seat stadium, various other campuses, but also seeing cell phones work in your pocket moving in a car or in a big city shopping centre is amazing. Even the Starlink stuff that is already deployed.

Anyway let's wait and see - I'm pretty sure T-Mobile wouldn't have signed on for something that is just a pipedream

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by dmitrygr on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @11:58PM (#34157679)
> I'm pretty sure T-Mobile wouldn't have signed on for something that is just a pipedream

Las Vegas and a few other cities did, from the same salesman: https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel...

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by pontilanda on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @02:20AM (#34158424)
> This would amaze anyone from before the 70s.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, I'm just pointing out your smugness at the fact that it's not common knowledge.

> the Starlink stuff

You mean the stuff that requires a large, hot disc on your roof and therefore not in your pocket? Are we talking about the same things there?

> I'm pretty sure T-Mobile wouldn't have signed

You trust big companies too much, they make mistakes all the time.

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by katbyte on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @03:00AM (#34158679)
Takes a much bigger radio to get the bandwidth for a starlink, 100mbs. Texting is on the order of bps. Garmin inreach mini is around the size of a tictac box and can send and receive texts.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by 1123581321 on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @12:18AM (#34157778)
Globalstar's network is LEO, but it's sparser (a couple dozen satellites) and about three times further away from earth.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by shaklee3 on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @01:10AM (#34157998)
it also uses a special antenna only in new iPhones that T-Mobile doesn't have the luxury of
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by 1123581321 on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @02:01AM (#34158305)
They're nice, but shouldn't be needed. Ubiquitilink (mentioned as Lynk in the article) has proven 500km two-way connections without them. A large constellation at that height with large antennas and spectrum rights should be able to offer higher bandwidth service than Globalstar's current network offers to iPhones.

Globalstar's capabilities aren't frozen either. The Apple deal uses most of their capacity, but they'll be launching additional satellites. While they're not in the current deal, Globalstar could launch a lower LEO service in the future. Cell phones with bigger antennas, like the case antennas in the new iPhones, would have better sat service communicating at Starlink's range.

We're also in relatively early days of large antenna deployment. AST's record-setting antennas are going to look quaint as launch costs and more complicated deployments continue to advance and benefit every satellite network.

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by justsomehnguy on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @08:16AM (#34160646)
15 years ago you need a clear view of the sky to get a GPS fix, forget about the indoors.

You can't get an unassisted fix indoors now, but it's totally capable to get a fix near the window.

> pocket, indoors, with a 5G nearby

I assume this tech is to be used outdoors without a 5G nearby.

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by lormayna on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @05:01AM (#34159343)
> LoRa

LoRa bitrate is very low and the range of LoRa is not even comparable with satellite communication. Moreover, normal smartphone are not LoRa compatible.

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by snovv_crash on Wednesday December 28, 2022 @05:32AM (#34159540)
Sattelite is 500km LoS, this is well in the capabilities of LORA. Text messages are also a similar bitrate to LORA.
Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by lormayna on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:20AM (#34183069)
https://lora-developers.semtech.com/documentation/tech-paper...

> LoRa provides for long-range communications: up to three miles (five kilometers) in urban areas, and up to 10 miles (15 kilometers) or more in rural areas (line of sight)

500km is one magnitude order more than the supposed range. And no phone has a LoRa chipset inside, neither the new ones.

Re:Your Cellphone Will Be a Satphone by snovv_crash on Friday December 30, 2022 @04:51AM (#34183555)
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9187602

The range limits are really around expected usage given omnidirectional antennas, unlicensed transmission power and terrestrial interference.

For LoS with a small (single) directional antenna it's easy to get another 10db. With a big dish you can go a lot higher.