Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ...
by tokai on Monday December 26, 2022 @06:51AM
(#34136915)
As a non-American calling liberalism 'left' is so weird. I grew up with the word liberal being a slur for right-winger. But even in an US context painting it as classic vs modern liberalism is wrong. Chomsky is definitely not a liberal, and the US obsession of collapsing every position to the left of conservatism into liberalism is dangerously reductive, and limits the answers for political questions immensely.
Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ...
by ziml77 on Monday December 26, 2022 @09:24AM
(#34137791)
As an American I also find it weird. There’s multiple axes getting reduced to just one. It’s impossible to have any proper discussions about political positions of people when you’re collapsing it down and then leaving it up to the reader to decide how they want to split it back out in their heads.
Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ...
by Matl on Monday December 26, 2022 @07:03AM
(#34136980)
I said I am not American for a reason, I am also familiar with my terms and what you write is somewhat a modern, American-centric distortion of terms as well. You listed what seem like talking points in the so called 'culture war' that I am not interested in fighting as it is very much an American phenomenon, (with some spillover) that in the end doesn't serve interests of anyone but the few profiting off of being spokepersons for one side or the other.
It's very much a modern distortion that leftism doesn't stand for free speech and that classical liberals, (in your context, I understand them to mean right-leaning libertarians), are somehow the only ones that do.
The left intellectuals I am familiar with are very much pro free speech, equal opportunity, (not outcome etc). As for markets, I very much question if such a thing as a free market could ever truly exist, (even without state interference), and if it's such a good thing but that's neither here nor there.
Point is, the left is very diverse, not a single box you can put everything you don't like the sound of in, label it 'the left' and be done with it. Same thing as not everyone on the right being a 'Nazi' if you will.
Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ...
by adastra22 on Monday December 26, 2022 @07:05AM
(#34136999)
I wouldn’t have grouped Chomsky in with them though.
Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ...
by adastra22 on Monday December 26, 2022 @07:04AM
(#34136992)
If you read the rest of his comment, you’d see that’s not what he was talking about at all.
Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ...
by pnf on Monday December 26, 2022 @08:13PM
(#34143808)
Despite its etymology, liberalism is not primarily about freedom, it is about individualism. This is what connects "classical" and "modern" liberalism. Freedoms and so-called "human rights" shake out of this foundational idea that the individual is sovereign.
What you're referring to are known more commonly as Modern Liberalism and Classical Liberalism, respectively.
Modern Liberalism is, well, the Left: Control of speech, adherence of expression, safe spaces, equal results rather than equal opportunity, wealth redistribution, controlled markets, etc.
Classical Liberalism is liberalism as it used to mean originally: Free speech, free expression, free markets, equal opportunity, individual responsibility, etc.
It probably doesn't need to be said that Classical Liberalism is almost never associated with the Left.
Also remember: The word "liberal" and name "liberalism" are derived from the Latin word "liber", from which we also get words such as "liberty". Liberalism is about freedom, something that the Left staunchly argues against.