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Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by MBCook on Saturday December 24, 2022 @05:25PM (#34121750)
But it was on level one charging (110v). A level two charger, even a slow one, should be able provide enough current to heat the battery and still charge the battery at the same time.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by rtkwe on Saturday December 24, 2022 @05:36PM (#34121849)
Most of the time if you're not at your own home you'll be on 110V chargers. To get 220V charging at someone else's you're likely either at another EV owners house who's gone through the trouble of installing a 220V port or you're lucky and they have a conveniently placed dryer in the garage you can steal 220V power from.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by Scoundreller on Saturday December 24, 2022 @06:12PM (#34122150)
> conveniently placed dryer in the garage

That’s only a warm climate thing. Plumbing (of the associated washing machine) that’s prone to freezing is unlikely to be in the garage in cooler climates.

Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by vosper on Saturday December 24, 2022 @06:22PM (#34122253)
There’s no particular reason that a dryer and washer have to go in the same room. I have my dryer in my garage, because it’s a hybrid heat-pump model that is very efficient when the garage is warmed up from the afternoon sun, but can provide its own heat in winter. It captures all the water in a tank, so doesn’t put any moisture into the room. Modern dryers are really quite neat :)
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by Scoundreller on Saturday December 24, 2022 @06:30PM (#34122327)
> There’s no particular reason that a dryer and washer have to go in the same room

Uhhhh convenience? People prefer them right next to each other so that clothes washing isn’t a long journey. At least that’s why the plumbing and electrical/gas connections are usually built close to each other.

Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by EdwardDiego on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:16PM (#34123413)
Serious question, do Americans use clotheslines? Our dryer is only really used for towels/sheets in wet weather.

The rotary clothesline [0] was standard in Australia and New Zealand for decades, although with the move to smaller sections, people tend to install compact linear lines instead.

[0]: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/hills-hoist-iconic-ro...

Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by acdha on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:21PM (#34123452)
Some do but it was considered a poor thing for much of the 20th century to the point where many cities and HOAs had rules against them. This is changing but it amazed me when I lived in California where in the summer you could line dry in similar times at zero cost.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by rtkwe on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:59PM (#34123719)
Generally no. Line drying has a connotation of poverty in the US and many cities have ordinances like this that make it tough to do. Also houses being generally larger and detached in the US we have an easier time installing them compared to row houses in Europe. They're also just built more recently so they have accommodations for them built in already.

"No person shall place or allow to remain exposed to the elements laundry, clothing, rags, or other cloth items hung or stored on a front porch or front or other street yard of a dwelling."

Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by EdwardDiego on Saturday December 24, 2022 @10:04PM (#34123757)
Oh wow. I did wonder why dryers were so frequently used in the US. Don't you have to worry about it shrinking clothing though?
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by rtkwe on Saturday December 24, 2022 @10:34PM (#34123943)
I haven't had much trouble with that personally. Sometimes the first wash will shrink clothes slightly but afaik a lot of clothing manufacturers these days put clothes through a 'pre-shrinking' process that compacts them down simulating the shrinking process so they won't shrink appreciably.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by fbdab103 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @03:45AM (#34125483)
A bigger concern is additional wear and tear. Dryers seem to be harsh on clothing and will reduce the lifespan vs just hanging.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by samwillis on Saturday December 24, 2022 @06:42PM (#34122413)
Unless you are not in North America. Most of the rest of the world have a base voltage of, and all domestic outlets are 220-240.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by pandaman on Saturday December 24, 2022 @08:27PM (#34123103)
In the US "220V" refers to a high current outlet normally, in a country where household outlets are 220V, you still need a high current outlet and, for safety reasons, most outlets are not high current, just like in the US.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by 8note on Saturday December 24, 2022 @08:48PM (#34123234)
A 220V outlet will always give you more power for the same current limit than a 120V
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by pandaman on Saturday December 24, 2022 @08:56PM (#34123284)
A 220V outlet won't always have the same current limit though.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by sgerenser on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:17PM (#34123414)
True, but in the US most 240v outlets are 30-50A, whereas in countries that use 240v for their normal household outlets, the current limit is usually 13-15A. Still double the wattage of a typical US outlet but not up to the standards of a “Level 2” charger.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by john-radio on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:06PM (#34123352)
Wait, this is terribly confusing. Why would "220 volts" not refer to a completely objective measurement of current?
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by kergonath on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:15PM (#34123405)
The Volt is a unit of electric potential. The SI unit of current is the Ampere. You can have very large potential differences (in V) with very small current (in A). The unit of power is the Watt, and 1 W = 1 A*1 V.

So, a given power can be obtained using any voltage, with the proper current. In practice, high currents are unsafe so we tend to avoid that in unprotected sockets. Different norms correspond to different tradeoffs.

Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by rtkwe on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:53PM (#34123675)
The voltage and current combined is the actually important number which is the total wattage available on that circuit. The US standard 220/240V outlet will provide ~30A of current usually while a UK outlet usually has a 13A fuse in the plug matching the circuit's rough availability.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by devwastaken on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:20PM (#34123443)
U.K. is 220v @ 13A for an average socket. That's almost double what a common 120v 15A does in the U.S.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by pandaman on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:29PM (#34123509)
In the US it's 30A minimum for an average "220v" (it's actually 240 V) outlet such as a dryer or AC, that's more than double than 13A 220V gives in the UK.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by devwastaken on Sunday December 25, 2022 @10:28PM (#34134252)
You will not find a 240 in the u.s. outside of specific installations, while in the UK a common plug already is 220 13a.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by pandaman on Sunday December 25, 2022 @10:35PM (#34134291)
It depends on what you call "specific installations", in my house I have two 240V 30A outlets for the dryer hookup and for an electric oven and one 240V 40A for the air conditioner.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by devwastaken on Monday December 26, 2022 @02:01PM (#34140641)
We are talking of an outlet for a car in winter. It is much more common to have a common outlet outside than to have a 240v outlet. Even if there were a 240, it would be in the nema format that electric vehicles don't accept directly.

This is also the same problem with electric kettles in the U.S. they boil much faster in the u.k. because almost double the power for a common outlet.

Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by pandaman on Monday December 26, 2022 @03:06PM (#34141268)
If having 240V in an outlet was sufficient to charge a car, we could have installed a transformer and inverter in a car and charge it from a 1.5V AAA battery by pulling up the voltage to 240V. Plugging a car to a 240V outlet with a 13A breaker will only give you 2650 Watt charging power (provided there is the same code that requires 85% of maximum draw in continuous application), which is just 1 kW more than plugging into a 120V 15A outlet. Not a huge difference that would make charging bearable when the car uses more than 1.5 kW just to keep the battery warm.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by devwastaken on Monday December 26, 2022 @09:25PM (#34144315)
An extra 1KW would actually charge the car given time. Not just keep the battery warm. 1kwh is supposedly about 4 miles. Charge for 12 hours overnight, you have enough to get to the supercharger.
Re:The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter by pandaman on Monday December 26, 2022 @10:37PM (#34144777)
In the OP story, the car was losing charge while plugged into 110V outlet, that means that 1.5 kW was not enough to keep the battery warm. An extra 1kWh might or might not get it into actually charging and even if it's been charging at 1kW it would not get 4 miles per hour, the car driving in these conditions would still use energy to keep the battery pack at the working temperature.