What I had to realize is that even if "me without meds" was an existentially truer version of myself, people did not like me without meds, they did not want to be my friend, nor did they want to give me a job. That's what got me on meds, and yes, it felt really shitty at the time.
Years later, I don't feel that way any more. "Me with meds" feels like me, more than ever actually. And, lots of those things I valued about "me without meds" (wit, spontaneity, high energy, creativity) came back over time as I adjusted to being medicated.
Unfortunately, not everyone is able to find a med that allows them to get to that happy point. It took good healthcare, several tries, a support network, and (I assume) luck.
In another time, I would have been a shaman. My entire life, I had a deep spiritual connection with wolves. That's gone. All that's left of it is blank wall and confusion.
This hurt deeply. I can't even begin to describe how it felt to have everything I knew about myself destroyed.
I'm fortunate to have been raised Christian. That hasn't changed and it's been a welcome grounding while I work things out.
I feel like I'm fundamentally a different person. Like I was dropped into someone else's body. Someone else was here before me and left a bunch of furniture I keep bumping into. :)
But, I know I'm a kinder person than the person before me. Is this spiritual enlightenment? If it is, I might want a refund. :D
I’m not psychotic so it’s of course easier to be reasonable about the situation, but it’s never fun to be on drugs like these.
I chose to live without mania. I want to slow down and work on things I want to do, not be driven to do things, no matter how amazing they turned out.
> For those reading who have less experience, they sometimes call that anosognosia or lack of awareness.
I'm fascinated to learn of this and to read more, thank you.
These mental illnesses are adaptions/optimizations to the rise and fall of violence that was normal human history for the longest time.
A armed paranoid hobo maybe looking like a maladjusted human being to you now, but in stalingrad, sebreniza or bhakmut, he would be very adapted to his surroundings. All those stress triggered changes had their spoke on the wheel of time.
My opinion is that people should be force treated, but only until they reach "sentience" and can decide for themselves, not under any influence.
They also should be able to make sentient "wills", specifying condition under which the state is allowed to step in and help them.
If somebody wants to return to his mental state, nobody should be allowed to stop them. Human lifes value is not there to be useful, aesthetic pleasing or comfortable for society. Its value is only defined by the person living it..
But then again, i view optimists as mentally sick..
I don't think this works well when clear-cut, unambiguous delusions cause somebody to act on them and harm themselves and others.
I do acknowledge it's very hard to know when that is, and people can disagree.
At least he won’t be stabbing someone in an alley in 10 years - probably.
You know, I believe that Kanye may have significant mental illness, but...
An argument primarily from an economic angle makes me uncomfortable. On paper, I am not maximizing economic value right now-- but I'm pretty sure I'm well adjusted and happy with my (seemingly economically irrational) choices.
I think what you describe is completely orthogonal to what we were discussing-- whether seemingly acting in one's economic interest can be a measure on one's mental well being and used to judge whether someone is using their autonomy appropriately.
If we use outside economic tests, we become pretty fascist and authoritarian really-quick-like.
Eg. A lot of people can have symptoms of a psychotic disorder but they are still "productive" and functioning.
On the other hand a lot of people with bipolar disorder go through "manic spending sprees" which leaves them in huge debt. Or, people start to be unable to hold a job or keep up with studies. They might quit their job impulsively persuing a delusion, or make unwise investments while manic. This can be a proxy for how they are doing with the illness.
Someone with this type of issue who is very wealthy kind of makes that kind of argument fall apart. Kanye can blow a lot of money and still survive. A more normal person with bipolar disorder would hit rock bottom from a financial standpoint much sooner.
Yes, and Kanye may have various financial and business problems, but by any sane metric is able to support himself.
> Kanye can blow a lot of money and still survive.
Yes, which makes the behavior less obviously irrational.
This is why diagnostic criteria have phrases like "cause marked impairment in social or occupational functioning" --- and meeting diagnostic criteria alone is not generally sufficient for involuntary commitment. There, we reach the legal system, and definitions that generally include a pretty strict definition of danger-to-self-or-others-or-gravely-disabled, which wouldn't include this kind of thing.
I agree, though it’s not clear if you’re talking 5150 or conservatorship.
IMO, a pretty clear argument could be made (if someone had standing and wanted to do so) for conservatorship, at least of the estate, and possibly for him individually, in Kanye’s case.
I don’t see anything even hinting at a justification for 5150 WIC, even without considering the de-facto loosening of when it’s applied, which is I’m guessing what you’re referring to.
Hell, even if you’re lunging at someone with knife while talking about killing your self, it seems like most jurisdictions won’t do it. (Especially SF). If particularly public safety minded at the moment, they might take away your knife if they don’t shoot you first.
Budget reasons.
As to where it would go, god knows.
Plenty of poor people say messed up things, alienate people around them, and screw up their employment. They generally don't end up with involuntary mental treatment. Even if the root cause is because of mania or something.
> I don’t see anything even hinting at a justification for 5150 WIC, even without considering the de-facto loosening of when it’s applied, which is I’m guessing what you’re referring to.
Well, the whole context we're talking about things in is in the context of involuntary treatment.
Budget has a big part to play in this.
I disagree with this assertion, too, BTW, but it's so far from what I set out to discuss that I'm not too interested in responding further.
It’s quite common for folks in entertainment and sports for people to accrue large ‘fixed’ expenses (property, debt, child support, etc), on a variable future income.
He’s earned a lot of money, but he’s also spent a lot of money, and he nuked his major source of income and wealth not that long ago.
The divorce clearly is setting up even more cashflow issues. That kind of thing has ruined many normal/objectively mentally stable men.
Unless he’s been carefully squirreling away something, or setting up trusts carefully to protect his ass - not something that seems characteristic for him - it’s possible he’s defacto negative cashflow and bankrupt right now, and just doesn’t know it. Or maybe he does, and that’s feeding the mania.
Not disagreeing with you. Noting that such a system does exist, is currently active, alive, and ‘doing well’, and applicable when someone’s decisions impact the economic well-being of others in a certain situation.
Growing up he would tell me how terrible the medications were. I believed him, and still do to an extent. However he also identified with his illness and thought the drugs were taking away his special powers. That was a symptom. For those reading who have less experience, they sometimes call that anosognosia or lack of awareness.
In the end it's a very existential thing. It's easy to wonder about identity. I had a few people in my life with this sort of illness. I developed a model where medicated, treated, and stable, that is the "normal" them, their identity. However, these people got offended by this, and engaged in behavior I would describe as identifying with symptoms. Acknowledging symptoms, no matter how evident, was tantamount to personal attacks.
I think we all have issues with this in our lives. Self awareness and identity is a difficult problem. It's only when it falls far outside of norms, into extremes, that we call it a disorder. It can be very tricky to draw those lines.