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Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by barbegal on Friday December 16, 2022 @09:20AM (#34014712)
From an engineering perspective these sorts of acrylic tanks are a nightmare to ensure they are safe. The seams are impossible to inspect rigorously so the only real way of checking that they are safe is to load them with an excess pressure ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_test ). This can't be done with a tank of this size so the engineers can only real fall back on giving the tank excessive safety margins. But those safety margins cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for a tank this big so maybe they were reduced.

All it takes is one incorrect application of a seam bond and a small crack will form. The crack may take decades to propagate with no way of detecting it. When the seam opens up a bit the crack will then propagate the entire length of the seam extremely rapidly and the whole tank will fail. Ideally failures would be slow and predictable but this is impossible with acrylic.

These sorts of failures have occurred before https://www.plasticstoday.com/materials/when-acrylic-aquariu... and will keep occurring as long as this type of construction is used.

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by lqet on Friday December 16, 2022 @09:38AM (#34014944)
Would it be possible to construct a seamless acrylic tube, maybe on-site?
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by barbegal on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:20AM (#34016360)
Not of this size. Certainly single pieces are used in other applications where safety is even more critical such as submersibles. But manufacturing a tube this big would be impossible.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by plastiquebeech on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:28AM (#34016485)
Impossible to manufacture? Or financially impossible to build a factory for the purpose and larger infrastructure to accommodate transportation?

I'm curious if there is something about acrylics which makes it impossible to make very large single pieces.

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by barbegal on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:52AM (#34016854)
I guess you could transport it at immense cost. But you'd also need a machine capable of moulding or extruding it this big. Current maximum for plastic pipes is about 3.5m diameter https://www.agru.at/en/applications/agruline/grand-opening-r... so you'd need something which is capable of more than 3 times the diameter.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by CoastalCoder on Friday December 16, 2022 @07:53PM (#34022883)
Could one pour liquid acrylic into a mold (like with a concrete foundation), rather than extruding it?
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by yencabulator on Friday December 16, 2022 @12:32PM (#34017468)
You're making me think of this industrial scale 3D printer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL2KoMNzGTo
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by tdeck on Friday December 16, 2022 @05:55PM (#34021751)
That's cool but it's all seams with 3d printing, so it seems like that would make the problem worse.

By the way, here's a big cool 3D printer that prints opaque acrylic: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b3CY3P28qyQ

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by IndySun on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:00AM (#34015241)
Thank you barbegal. Given the height and water volume in this instance, do you consider the people involved took too huge a risk? I do believe acrylic is used in aquaparks and zoo aquatic pools. I skimmed instances of acrylic/water fails. Dare I ask, is acrylic construction a significantly cheaper option to solid alternatives?
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by barbegal on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:41AM (#34016658)
There are no real alternatives. Glass has mostly the same bonding issues but is more expensive and heavier. Putting acrylic or glass panels in a steel frame dramatically reduces the probability of failure but you lose the wow factor of having a single sheet of transparent material.

I don't think any installation of this size can be truly safe. It has to be constructed in-situ being too large to transport so you would have to come up with some way of pressure testing the tank in-situ.

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by bombcar on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:39AM (#34015768)
Is there no way to detect cracks or is it just prohibitively expensive to do so?

I know that metal fatigue is a known thing that airlines check for and when they went to carbon fiber they had to develop tools to detect fatigue/cracks.

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by mardifoufs on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:01AM (#34016049)
From my limited knowledge[0], it does not seem like this would be an easy structure to scan for inspection. Acrylic can even used for the wedges that interface between the phased array (or single element) probe [1] because it's very good at not interfering with ultrasounds. Water is also a very good "coupling" material, which makes it even harder to get a useful scan since there would be no "backwall" reflecting back the ultrasounds on the other side of the acrylic.

There are other ways to scan for defects, but I'm mostly familiar with ultrasound phased arrays. Other NDT methods are also hard to use in the field after manufacturing.

[0] I work in NDT (non destructive testing), but I'm not a physics engineer and (work further up the stack from the actual probes/scanners). So this is an approximation, and I might be wrong.

[1] This random link is pretty useful to get an idea I think, but I'll also ask around our inhouse scientists if I get the occasion today!

https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/ndt-tutorials/transducers/pha...

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by bombcar on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:41AM (#34016665)
So it sounds like you'd need something on both sides of the "glass" kind of like this aquarium magnet but much larger/complicated: https://www.amazon.com/JRing-Aquarium-Cleaner-Aquariums-Clea... and slowly move it around the whole tank, repeatedly scanning as it goes.

So I'm going to put it in the "theoretically possible but nobody will do it" category for now. ;)

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by jacquesm on Friday December 16, 2022 @03:41PM (#34020062)
It's a much harder problem than that. Even if you did not find the crack just before taking the structure into use a crack could develop at any point in time after that and you're definitely not going to be emptying this tank on a regular basis for inspection.

So you either detect it before commissioning or it will eventually fail if there is a flaw.

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by chmod775 on Saturday December 17, 2022 @12:19PM (#34029835)
They had divers regularly going inside to clean it anyways. Doesn't seem like such an unlikely thing.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by jws on Friday December 16, 2022 @06:00PM (#34021788)
Acrylic and water have virtually the same index of refraction, so if the crack forms on the wet side of the wall and wicks in water you will not detect it visually.

It forms the basis of some magic tricks involving walking on or supporting things in water. (I say some, the rest are totally magic and you should enjoy them.)

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by pvaldes on Saturday December 17, 2022 @06:37AM (#34026946)
I just realized that water can be safely colored
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by matheusmoreira on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:18AM (#34016331)
What's the best material for a tank like this, if not acrylic? Normal glass? Not educated on this subject.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by BatFastard on Friday December 16, 2022 @01:21PM (#34018115)
Ideally it would be extruded diamond, but that technology will not be available until early in the 26th century. Second would be clear aluminum, but again that will not be available for another 150 years.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by gspetr on Friday December 16, 2022 @05:36PM (#34021564)
Just one question: Why did you give my homie Stephen Hawking the cold shoulder when he hosted a party[0] for time travelers in 2009?

[0] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/stephen-hawking-time-t...

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by marcosdumay on Friday December 16, 2022 @08:21PM (#34023156)
The entire problem is that acrylic is not plastic enough, so it fails catastrophically. Well, diamond has all the nice features for structure building, but it's even britter than acrylic. So your sci-fi diamond tank would fail in an even more sensational way.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by Reason077 on Saturday December 17, 2022 @06:28AM (#34026898)
We have clear aluminium already in the form of sapphire glass (Al₂O₃). Presumably you're referring to a means of manufacturing it at a scale suitable for, say, an aquarium?
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by 4ad on Saturday December 17, 2022 @09:16AM (#34027918)
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by iancmceachern on Friday December 16, 2022 @01:28PM (#34018188)
Acrylic is the best material for this application we currently have. If we had a better material, we would use it.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by Tossrock on Friday December 16, 2022 @08:17PM (#34023116)
Polycarbonate is stronger and more shatter-resistant (it's used for fighter jet canopies, among other things) but also substantially more expensive.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by jvandonsel on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:16PM (#34024104)
Transparent aluminum
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by pvaldes on Saturday December 17, 2022 @06:40AM (#34026963)
maybe we could focus in shape also, not only material.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by usefulcat on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:21AM (#34016372)
The article specifically says that this particular aquarium was made of glass?
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by gnabgib on Friday December 16, 2022 @12:12PM (#34017158)
The article does, but "the AquaDom was a 25-metre-tall (82 ft) cylindrical acrylic glass aquarium"[0] Turns out that's just poor reporting, they could have been more specific. It was the largest (by volume) acrylic cylindrical aquarium in the world.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AquaDom

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by mc32 on Friday December 16, 2022 @12:29PM (#34017416)
Also, they focus on aesthetics.

They could have steel bands providing reinforcement which would be just slightly obtrusive at some angles, but boy, now it would have bands and well, it's not an uninterrupted glass [acrylic] cylinder.

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by weinzierl on Friday December 16, 2022 @01:21PM (#34018110)
I just saw a documentary (in German) from 2003 about its construction. There is an interview with a guy from the American (Colorado) company which built the tank who boasted that only two companies in the world could build it and the other one declined because they deemed it impossible. Other interesting facts were:

- 15 segments of acrylic glass

- 12 segments for the outer cylinder, 3 for the inner

- all segments worth 4 million EUR

- 200 wall thickness

- shipped in a steel construction

They did not say it, but from the video it looks like the segments were assembled in at the destination but not in their final location.

EDIT: I misunderstood, looks like the outer cylinder was assembled in-place, the inner one on-site and then lifted inside.

For completeness, here is the video, but it is in German:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E3KjGJ8AZzI

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by petre on Saturday December 17, 2022 @10:53AM (#34028799)
Great engineering feat but it was a dumb idea to begin with. Just like sending people to Mars. Luckily nobody died, excluding the fish of course.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by steelbrain on Sunday December 18, 2022 @09:27PM (#34047575)
This is tangent from the topic at hand but I'm curious to pick your brain. Why is it a dumb idea to send people to Mars?
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by petre on Monday December 19, 2022 @02:23AM (#34049434)
For the same reason it was a dumb idea to put a dog in orbit without the means to return it back to Earth alive.
Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by pantalaimon on Friday December 16, 2022 @06:48PM (#34022288)
The thing was just recently reopened after revision, here is an interview after the overhaul: https://www.domaquaree.de/de/Modernisierung-AquaDom.html

Interesting bit:

> It got a little tricky when taping off the glass envelope with foil to prevent possible cracks. Acrylic glass is a sensitive material that absorbs water over time. If it then dries out too quickly, cracks can appear even in the glass walls, which are up to 20 centimeters thick.

Re:Huge cylindrical aquarium housing 1,500 exotic fish burst... by nuc1e0n on Saturday December 17, 2022 @12:47AM (#34025173)
They should've made this tank with transparent aluminum.