News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by jarbus on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:13PM (#33975051)
As a linux user, I don't like how Apple gets to decide every app that can be installed on iOS. I like the ability to install any program I choose. This alone is enough for me. Currently, I use a linux emulator, iSH, on my iPad, but I'm really worried that at any moment apple could make it unusable for me because it can run arbitrary programs, which they stated they are directly against.
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by mrmanner on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:28PM (#33975257)
As a Linux user, I love that there’s a kind of device I can recommend my non-technical friends and family without worrying too much about their safety or privacy. Is it perfect? No. But the risk that they’re fooled into installing a malicious app is still a lot lower than with mandated side loading and app stores with lax oversight.

I.e the gatekeeping my government wants to prohibit is the reason I’ve been recommending these things. I guess I’ll have to switch to recommending AwareGo security training for everyone

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by everfree on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:31PM (#33975291)
> mandated side loading

In what respect does any phone currently on the market have "mandated side loading"?

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by someweirdperson on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:05PM (#33976658)
Government-mandated (usually in selected specific cases) spyware trojans are not installed through any of the app stores.
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by everfree on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:28PM (#33977013)
What specifically do you mean by "selected specific cases"?
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by someweirdperson on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @06:25PM (#33977762)
Usually "mandated" for people like terrorists, sometimes journalists, but only in few countries for everyone.
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by mrmanner on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:46PM (#33975502)
Probably nothing currently on the market - we’re discussing a law that’s in effect from 2024
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by everfree on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:32PM (#33977067)
Then my question is: Why do you believe that relaxing app requirements on iOS would cause mandated side-loading, given that it's not a problem for anything else currently on the market?
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by mrmanner on Saturday December 17, 2022 @06:19PM (#34033317)
My point was that the possibility to side load apps is becoming mandatory, and that that possibility comes with a risk. I don’t think people will be forced to side load things, sorry if I didn’t express myself properly
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by HideousKojima on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:55PM (#33975643)
Where is sideloading "mandated" on Android?
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by FredPret on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:15PM (#33975075)
But in this wonderful thing called the free market, you can simply not buy Apple things
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by everfree on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:26PM (#33975235)
In what way is mobile phone software a free market?

"Simply not buy Apple things" means "buy Google things." There's no way around that if you want a functional smart phone. You either pick red or blue.

If there were 5-10 full-featured phone OSes out there, your point would make more sense to me.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by andiareso on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:30PM (#33975285)
Yea I don't get the argument of "Just don't use Apple"

You can like the hardware and not care for the software. It really is A/B at the moment. It's difficult for the average user to choose C. You either allow Google to peer into your life, or trust that Apple's marketing isn't a gimmick and a lot of Apple is e2e encrypted.

From what I read, iCloud backups are finally getting e2e encryption. I see this as the biggest reason to stick with Apple. I trade off full-customizability for better security/experience.

If a jailbreak was available for my iPhone, I'd be on it though.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by LarryMullins on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @04:11PM (#33975852)
> From what I read, iCloud backups are finally getting e2e encryption.

Yes, but only as secure as the passphrase you use to unlock your phone. Except actually less secure than that; your phone will rate limit attempts to guess your passphrase, but encrypted iCloud backups turned over to a government won't and can't rate limit attempts.

For the average user with a relatively short passphrase, iCloud backups will be trivial to crack. Still, it's an improvement.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by DCKing on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:11PM (#33976744)
You seem to think that your phone's pin is used directly as some sort of encryption key for cloud backups, but that's not how these systems work. Your pin or face or fingerprint unlocks your phone's secure element, and the secure element contains a randomly generated high entropy encryption key for your data.

This is why you can casually change your pin code in your phone's settings without it chewing through your battery and data plan reencrypting and reuploading gigabytes of cloud data.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by everfree on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:25PM (#33976949)
In addition to what DCKing said, you can effectively rate-limit password attempts on encrypted data by deriving the key using a cryptographic hashing function such as bcrypt with a high amount of iterations.
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by mrmanner on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:41PM (#33975426)
What does full-featured mean to you? There’s a bunch of non-google Android distros that seem full featured to me. Same with Sailfish, at least when I last used it some years ago.

No big corporate support, less commercial apps packaged by default, but that’s a feature in itself.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by everfree on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:20PM (#33976878)
To me, full-featured means that I can install a ridesharing app, social media/chat apps, a podcast app, a maps app with live traffic updates and turn-by-turn directions, and popular streaming music and video apps.

Bonus points for supporting contactless payments, banking apps, and airline apps.

The hardware should have decent battery life and get great cell reception, and the UI should be smooth.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by ubercow13 on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:16PM (#33976811)
Supporting commercial apps like banking apps for example. Many financial institutions are now app-only in the UK.
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by blep_ on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:26PM (#33975234)
Switching phone ecosystems is a hell of a lot harder and more expensive than installing an app. (And the Android ecosystem is honestly not good either.)
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by stale2002 on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:56PM (#33975649)
Indeed the free market is great. And you will continue to have the ability to only use the Apple App store, if you so chose.

You are prohibiting from crying or complaining about this by your own logic.

You are free to not install an alternative app stores, and cannot use any arguments at all about how your choice is restricted.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by behnamoh on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:20PM (#33975146)
> As a linux user...

You answered yourself. Most people are not Linuxy in the sense that they buy an iPhone and don't want to know how everything works.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by MSFT_Edging on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:29PM (#33975277)
I'm in a similar boat. I bought an ipad because its simply the best tablet and actually gets attention. I didn't want a chromeOS or Windows device. The ipad for me is about 80% there and the other 20% is just not what apple wants.

If this would push that other 20%, I might even consider switching from Android.

As it stands, Android has a lot of free trash on the play store, and Iphone has a lot of paid trash on the app store because apple charges them hundreds per year for the honor of developing on their platform.

On Android, when I need an app with basic functionality, I already check fdroid first for a simple OSS implementation. I don't need my voice recorder to do anything except record audio. I don't need my heart beat monitor to do anything but check my pulse.

I'm hoping this change brings the type of innovation early jailbreak app stores brought that basically test drove features that Apple would copy years later and call "innovative".