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Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by diego_moita on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @08:50PM (#33903071)
I am reading an well argued book saying the same thing: The End of the World Is Just the Beginning - Mapping the Collapse of Globalization by Peter Zeihan.

He argues that international trade competition will withdraw the U.S. from international sea trade patrolling and peace keeping military operations and will weaken the institutions created by the Breton Woods treaty.

Interesting read but still not convinced. The book was written before Putin had that stupid idea. Let's see how does it play out.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by UncleOxidant on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @09:02PM (#33903146)
I find that Zeihan has some interesting insights, but I also often find that he seems to be a little too confident in some of his predictions. He often times comes off as being very positive about the US outlook, but very pessimistic about the rest of the world. And sure, the US has a better demographic situation than China and Russia and that's going to be bad for them, but it's not like they don't have any cards to play.
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by enaaem on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @11:47PM (#33904277)
He correctly predicted the Russia-Ukraine war 8 years ago. The idea is that Russia will lose around 20% of its young male demographic (20-35y) between 2020 and 2030, so it’s the only time window they can start a major war.

The outlook of Russian and Chinese demographics isn’t just worst than the US. It’s one of the worst in the world with a sudden decline in working age population in the upcoming 1-2 decades, while at the same time not having first world economies.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by s3000 on Thursday December 08, 2022 @02:59AM (#33905448)
What is a first world economy and why would China be better off with one? China used their export economy to gain the manufacturing knowledge. What would happen if they turn inwards and not allocate their workers on export goods? Which critical infrastructure besides the most modern chips can't they produce?

There must be a surplus of workers as long as China has the hukou system. If they can offer free movement to all of their citizens within 1-2 decades, wouldn't that be a good outlook?

Russia on the other hand doesn't look good but as the energy and food supplier of China, do they have to maintain their demographics?

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by dirtyid on Thursday December 08, 2022 @11:35AM (#33909859)
Many analysts predicted RU/UKR war 10+ years ago just on premise of NATO encroachment without factoring in demographics. Fact they executed a special operation on the cheap with a few 100,000 men reflect they weren't preparing for last major war before demographic window closes. Arguably with how much unmanned platforms have proliferated, RU could have waited even longer.

>Chinese demographics isn’t just worst than the US. It’s one of the worst in the world with a sudden decline in working age population in the upcoming 1-2 decades, while at the same time not having first world economies.

Naive analysis of demographic pyramid, especially with respect to great powers competition, for which I'd argue PRC has probably the most potent demographic trend in recorded human history: 1) PRC is generating as much STEM / high skilled talent as OECD countries combined, and magnitude more than US can absorb via births + immigration even with low TFR. Hence all the news in recent years of PRC closing academic, S&T gap and moving up value chain. 2) reduction in absolute population numbers = less import dependencies and more strategic flexbility. Meanwhile Chinese households has some of highest savings rates while industry has high automation adoption to weather population decline vs west whose onerous first world safety nets that are likely not sustainable long term. More skilled people + even less unskilled people for country has excess people wants to reduce net resource imports = recipe for improving strategic competitiveness.

Also note that developed PRC coastal region are functionally first world economies with capacities that are rapidly closing gap with US+co. The useful lens to evaluate PRC demographics is that roughly every decade for the next several decades, the internal talent mix is replacing a Nigeria with a Japan, sure less aggregate people, but more skilled people, still a substantial amount with PRC pop denominator. And people who structure their finances without expectation of first world welfare coverage. That gives PRC better demographic trend vs US for closing relative strength gap for strategic competition in the coming decades.

A more broader comment on Zeihan is outside of US, he is a generalist and rarely know enough about the POLITCS to really credibly comment on global geoPOLITICS. Like imagine trying to sell his audience US is blessed with river networks and deep coasts for ports and then neglect to mention PRC actually has the most navigable river networks and advanced ports. That's the politics in geopolitics. Politics can shape geography and demography which apart from very extreme cases, are far from destiny.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by spaceman_2020 on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @11:15PM (#33904070)
His reasoning seems rock solid to me. It is factually true that the US has built-in geographic security. It is also true that the US has a culture of immigration which makes it easier to keep demographic decline at bay, compared to, say, China.
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by VancouverMan on Thursday December 08, 2022 @12:49AM (#33904663)
Immigration is a double-edged sword.

Bringing in educated, skilled, productive, and socially-compatible individuals can certainly help a nation and its economy.

On the other hand, bringing in unskilled, unproductive, and socially-incompatible individuals can very quickly become a total disaster for a nation and its economy, too.

There's not much room for error. The negative impacts of allowing in just one additional unsuitable individual can easily cancel out the positive contributions of several productive individuals.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by janef0421 on Thursday December 08, 2022 @03:20PM (#33912778)
I don't see why demographics would be regarded as so important to industrialised societies. The bulk of labour power in those societies comes from machines, not physically fit young people. In such a society, an older population is not a downside, and can in fact be an upside, as older people often have more technical expertise for developing and maintaining those machines.

The only reason it's considered bad is because the system of socially-subsidised retirement leads to older people being artificially unproductive, but that's just one way of supporting the elderly; It would be feasible to institute a new system where aging people are given stronger labour protections, and are provided with support to change their patterns of work in response to changes to their physical and mental capabilities. Many would even see this as a positive thing, since work can provide a sense of meaning and retirement can be a major stressor.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by marmetio on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @09:33PM (#33903377)
And now you know how to properly use his analysis.

The service he provides is to brief US-centric companies on potential geopolitical trends, risks, and opportunities. You'd be misusing the information if you had little business with the US, or expected a crystal ball.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by taftster on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @11:20PM (#33904100)
My (recent) introduction to Zeihan was this talk he gave to pig farmers.

https://youtu.be/Wi_nFz1CJSI

The audio is a little rough, but it's worth the watch (in my opinion).

Yeah, he comes across as a bit forward and a bit nationalistic, and clearly not every prediction is going to land, but I think he's got some really good observations and seems fairly credible. Better at least than most of the talking-heads you see on the news.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by mpsprd on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @09:06PM (#33903178)
If you enjoy the read but require more convincing, I recommend following his newsletter. For instance, his analysis on crude oil price caps posted today point towards the instability of international trade and de-globalization. Very interesting insights.
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by taftster on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @11:23PM (#33904125)
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by HDThoreaun on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @09:50PM (#33903504)
I generally find Zeihan to be a quack. He's certainly got some interesting ideas, but his thoughts on china seem to be misguided and his american nationalism distracts him from the truth.
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by theflyinghorse on Thursday December 08, 2022 @12:06AM (#33904408)
That is because Zeihan sells geopolitics porn for Americans.
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by riversflow on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @10:56PM (#33903967)
I'm genuinely curious to hear a more detailed critique. What is "the truth"?
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by spaceman_2020 on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @10:34PM (#33903830)
I also find him to be too harsh on China, but their inane zero-covid policies, the infighting within the CCP, and the recent spate of protests make me think that he might be right all along.
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by midoridensha on Thursday December 08, 2022 @01:13AM (#33904781)
>the infighting within the CCP,

Every nation's leadership, and every political party, has infighting. Just look at all the infighting in US politics: it's a complete mess, and it's really dragging the US down. The US might be able to weather it better because of its stronger economy, but that's not a sure thing.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by horseAMcharlie on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @11:38PM (#33904222)
Kotkin spoke to the Hoover Institute in Q1 this year about China and he had the insight that in any communist country you can't be half communist. It's a binary choice which means there's almost no opportunity for centrist constituencies to arise. The only constituencies are pro-central government, anti-central government and apathetic.

This makes government legitimacy the central political object that almost all political discourse revolves around, whether there happens to be a taboo in acknowledging it or not. Following this, policy mistakes become comparatively much harder to reverse in communist countries than in liberal/illiberal democracies, monarchies and pseudo-monarchies.

with Chinese characteristics.

Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by efields on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @09:23PM (#33903299)
Zeihan has been prescient for a while but is rarely quoted in anything mainstream, which makes me feel like I’m missing something about him.
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by gscott on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @09:54PM (#33903547)
His pony tail is the issue. It is holding him back!
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @09:54PM (#33903539)
What you're missing is that the mainstream media doesn't know "prescient" until after it's already in the past.
Re:TSMC founder Morris Chang says globalization and free tra... by horseAMcharlie on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @11:13PM (#33904063)
I'd argue that PZ's idea of what globalization is is v. different to Morris Chang's idea of what it is.