News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by webinvest on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:22PM (#33779007)
Yeah I agree but the only other option are android phones by manufacturers that don’t last more than 2-4 years. iPhones still last for at least twice as long.

Hoping some knowledgeable Android or Pinephone shills can prove me wrong here

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by Panino on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:40PM (#33779273)
I mostly agree with you but am optimistic about the future of smartphones. We currently have some alternative operating systems like postmarketOS and Ubuntu Touch that can be used on select devices today. In 10 years I think the ecosystem will be much larger and more mature. Currently we just have iOS and Linux, but in a decade there may be OpenBSD as well, and possibly an order of magnitude more Linux distros for phones.

My dream is to have an OpenBSD phone that can be used as both a phone and normal computer. To use it as a "real computer" with an actual keyboard, mouse and screen, you could just plug those peripherals into the phone. Then take it with you and plug in someone else's mouse etc. if necessary when traveling.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by alvarezbjm-hn on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:49PM (#33779404)
Which phone are you using? My Samsung A71 already does that.

I plug a USB-C hub with an HDMI out to use a monitor/TV as display. Mouse, keyboard, flash drive, headphones, even cd drive, all work through USB in the hub.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by jay_kyburz on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:33PM (#33779169)
I don't really consider myself a shill, and yes, the only last 3-4 years but only because I drop them and it breaks. My phones are just phones. I take a few throw away photos with them. I don't pay more that $300 for a phone/text message/camera combo device.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by skeaker on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:30PM (#33779123)
Apple quite literally had a scandal where it was exposed in court that they deliberately slow older devices down to prematurely make them appear obsolete so that users will discard them sooner. I'm sure there are Android devices that do this too, but Apple really shouldn't be applauded for the longevity of their devices.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by vbezhenar on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:36PM (#33779208)
I'm pretty sure this is not true. They slow down the device when battery can't provide enough current to sustain unthrottled CPU. Its happening in the latest iOS. It happened with my 5 year phone few months ago which suddenly turned off. I don't even feel this throttling but it doesn't turn off anymore.

On an unrelated note, my Google Pixel 7 just hanged up. It didn't happen to me since windows XP I think. It's the worst phone I've ever owned.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by skrowl on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:45PM (#33779341)
It's 100% true, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Not only did it go to court, Apple admitted doing it and paid over $100M in damages.

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936268845/apple-agrees-to-pay...

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by vbezhenar on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:50PM (#33779421)
This article states that Apple did that to increase battery life. Do you have other sources to back your claims?
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by skrowl on Wednesday November 30, 2022 @01:24PM (#33805173)
They LITERALLY lost a court verdict that said they did it to screw customers.

I don't care what Apple's PR said, the court found that the AG complaint of "Many consumers decided that the only way to get improved performance was to purchase a newer-model iPhone from Apple, ... Apple, of course, fully understood such effects on sales." was correct and that Apple had to pay up.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by umanwizard on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:20PM (#33779861)
Apple admitted slowing down old phones. They DID NOT admit that the reason they did so was to force people to upgrade sooner. That is something you made up.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by 411111111111111 on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:48PM (#33779388)
I've got a pixel 6. Its honestly been a disaster as far as I'm concerned. It's way less stable then my previous 300€ Motorola with stock Android was.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by vel0city on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:03PM (#33779586)
Do you happen to use Firefox? I've found a lot of my stability issues on my 6a were related to Firefox on my phone. Installing firefox beta, going to about:config, and setting apz.overscroll.enabled to false seems to have fixed all the stability issues I was having.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by bigfudge on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:21PM (#33779874)
This is exactly the sort of reason I don’t think I could ever switch back to android.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by vel0city on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:54PM (#33780394)
For what its worth, this is the first time I've had such an issue with stability on Android going back to a Moto X 2014, my first Android phone.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by SoftTalker on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:06PM (#33779643)
The cheap Motorola "Moto G" phones (unlocked/no carrier bloatware) have been the best ones I ever owned. I have a Samsung Galaxy now from AT&T (not my choice) and it's horrible.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by lancesells on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:37PM (#33779233)
> that they deliberately slow older devices down to prematurely make them appear obsolete so that users will discard them sooner

Not an Apple apologist but I think you're leaving out a detail. Apples reasoning was due to older batteries[0]. You can see from the linked tweet the phones speed went back up when the battery was replaced. It may very well still be nefarious on their part.

[0] https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-might-be-slowing-down-y...

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by skeaker on Wednesday November 30, 2022 @12:19AM (#33797264)
I should have verified this before I commented, seems I kicked off quite a few threads with bad info. Thanks for the correction here, it looks like you're right. There are still arguments to be made against the longevity of Apple devices (if the batteries are the issue let us replace them, give us the option to pick battery or performance instead of forcing poor performance, etc.), but I'm glad to have been corrected on my initial argument.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by Spartan-S63 on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:40PM (#33779270)
This is an incredibly disingenuous argument.

Apple decided to underclock CPUs when the battery had aged to the point where consistent voltage couldn't be applied at maximum power. They did this so users wouldn't complain about their phone randomly crashing. Really, they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

What you can criticize is that they did it without informing users or allowing an option — the lawsuit and backlash reversed that course and they now have a setting for it. You can argue they should have had that all along. You can argue they were doing it purposely for planned obsolescence, but the evidence isn't really there to support it.

Apple provides major software upgrades for years longer than most Android devices do. There are some exceptions for Android, but the rule is that you're lucky to get more than two years of software updates for your phone. Apple, on the other hand, supports for 4-6 years. That should earn them kudos compared to most Android manufacturers.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by Karunamon on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:43PM (#33779315)
>You can argue they were doing it purposely for planned obsolescence, but evidence isn't really there to support it.

This is not a court of law and I am quite comfortable believing this was planned obsolescence for the simple that behaving in this way was advantageous to their profits. Otherwise it would not have taken lies (they initially denied the existence of the throttling!), outrage and lawsuits to do the right thing.

The alternative explanation is mass ignorance and/or incompetence on a level that would be hard to accept coming from Apple. Am I expected to seriously believe that nobody at Apple tested this throttle down behavior and saw (and likely measured) the impact on day-to-day performance?

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by eastbound on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:58PM (#33779522)
Aren’t they still doing it? My Macbook 2013 runs at lightening speeds, while my iMac 2020 is slow as hell because I upgrade it.

One may say it’s the layers of transparency and other services, but I don’t care about those, my Macbook 2013 was the pinnacle of perfection.

Apple is still definitely slowing down Macs with every single little release.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by gowings97 on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:22PM (#33779884)
"Apple is still definitely slowing down Macs with every single little release."

This was true for Intel Macs 2014-2020. I bought a 14' M1 Macbook Pro with 32GB of memory / 1TB storage and it absolutely flies. Best machine I've owned in almost a decade (2014 15' MBP).

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by Spartan-S63 on Monday November 28, 2022 @07:32PM (#33782005)
I think it was true of Intel Macs largely from their underpowered GPUs. I remember Yosemite being rough on a late 2013 MacBook Pro because the Intel iGPU was awful. Likewise going to Big Sur on a late 2019 MacBook Pro when not plugged into power (and thus not using the dGPU).
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by gowings97 on Monday November 28, 2022 @09:50PM (#33783094)
Really looking forward to a M series chip built on N3E with dedicated raytracing cores (probably the AR/VR headset, followed shortly thereafter by the Macbook Pro line)
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by Spartan-S63 on Monday November 28, 2022 @07:31PM (#33782000)
I think it's simpler: there's general arrogance that Apple knows what's best for their customers. Their entire philosophy isn't about giving customers what they want, it's giving customers what Apple thinks they need. So, when you uncover phones crashing because batteries age and folks don't get their batteries serviced, you throttle the CPU in software to avoid the issue. It's pure arrogance.

We also know that Apple is stubborn (see the removal of the headphone jack), so of course it's going to take a lawsuit for them to reverse course on something like this.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by Karunamon on Monday November 28, 2022 @09:10PM (#33782802)
That explains everything but the lying about the existence of the throttling. There are no ways I can square that circle other than Apple knowing what they were doing and wanting to hide it in a way that ever so coincidentally makes them more money.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by falcolas on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:33PM (#33779164)
Their reasoning behind this debacle wasn't entirely braindead (maintaining battery life at the expense of processing power on a degraded battery).

What was braindead was not giving customers information and control over if the slowdown was enabled.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by spinningarrow on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:33PM (#33779167)
Wasn't it the other way round? They slowed them down to make them last longer?
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by derrasterpunkt on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:39PM (#33779249)
That’s what they did. They just didn’t told anybody why they were doing it.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by umanwizard on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:35PM (#33779195)
You are free to believe that that was their motivation, but no such thing was ever “exposed in court”.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by arcticbull on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:41PM (#33779291)
That's not true at all.

What was happening is that the CPU was, at peak, pulling more power than an older battery was capable of delivering and it was causing a brownout.

Their solution was to restrict CPU performance as battery condition deteriorated to ensure that your phone was always giving you the maximum level of performance available to you.

Batteries are consumables and their performance degrades over time.

The whole thing was spun into "Apple is reducing performance of my old phone to make me buy a new one" - when the narrative could have just as easily been "Apple gets the most possible out a battery at all times." Note that competitors might have just used the lower performance level the whole time.

After the furor they gave you a 'set my performance to 100% at all times and let my phone take a dirt nap if it can't handle it' toggle switch in settings.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by cesarb on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:54PM (#33779467)
> Batteries are consumables and their performance degrades over time.

I can accept that for removable batteries. But if you have to essentially dismantle the device to replace the battery, it's part of the device and should be treated as such: the battery being a consumable means the entire device is a consumable.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by arcticbull on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:05PM (#33779635)
Well no, you can just get the battery replaced.

But that doesn't change anything - the point is, they could have just limited the CPU power draw to below the minimum threshold at all times so performance was constant, but low. That would in my opinion be strictly worse.

[edit] To be clear, I also want replaceable batteries but that conversation is totally orthogonal.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by imwillofficial on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:33PM (#33779165)
It was a battery life mitigation solution, that almost all major manufacturers did as well.

One which I think is sensible.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by skrowl on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:44PM (#33779326)
Do you personally know anyone who has been using the same iPhone for 8 years? I find that claim dubious.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by esskay on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:18PM (#33779838)
My grandmother still uses an iPad 2nd gen. Mainly because she's 97 and has dementia, and we taught her how to use facetime a decade ago, and it's all she knows how to do on it. It works for her needs, although the battery is completely shot so remains plugged in and we've since fixed it to the wall in front of her living room chair so it doesn't go missing.

Not quite as old but my Mum's still using an iPhone 5s from around 2014 which she had from new. She's not into apps so again, works fine for her as she doesn't need to be able to install anything. Thankfully homekit is still working on this and she's able to use it to tell siri to open the garage when she gets home.

Obviously these are very much edge cases, you can't find many apps in the app store still working on these older models.

I myself only upgraded from an iPhone 7 this September when the 14 came out. I'd had the battery replaced by Apple last year as it was a free recall thing which did massively improve its performance but it did eventually become too much of a pain in the arse to keep using.

I've got an old iPhone 5 which I keep for use as an occasional wifi hotspot too.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by stoeckley on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:53PM (#33779456)
I used an iPhone 4s from 2011 until end of 2018. Probably most remarkably, I never put a case or any kind of screen protector on it. The thing was still practically scratch free when I stopped using it. It’s still sitting in a drawer next to me.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by tristor on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:48PM (#33779398)
Me. I used an iPhone 8 until just recently when I finally gave up on TouchID coming back to flagships and got an iPhone 14 Pro. It lasted fine through three battery replacements, and I expect my new phone to last me for at least 5-6 years as well.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by cesarb on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:06PM (#33779644)
I don't find that claim dubious at all. We have an Android phone which has been in continuous use for probably around 10 years (I don't know exactly how many years, but it came with Android 2.x); I don't see why it would be any harder for an Apple phone to live as long.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by sockaddr on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:08PM (#33779672)
My coworker does.

He’s replaced the battery but it’s still the same phone. They don’t care much for camera upgrades and it works for them.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by nibbleshifter on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:06PM (#33779638)
A couple of people, its an oddity though.

For most people the hardware fails after 3 years lol

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by avip on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:06PM (#33779640)
Enters my iphone6. Though I'd admit it's about time to move on.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by ibz on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:52PM (#33779439)
You can't even run WhatsApp on a 6S, which is just 7 years old. So I doubt.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by bigfudge on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:18PM (#33779843)
I don’t think that’s right - my daughter does and she has a 6s
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by manishsharan on Monday November 28, 2022 @05:34PM (#33780853)
>>You can't even run WhatsApp on a 6S, which is just 7 years old

This is simply wrong.

My wife's still has her IPhone 6S and she absolutely loves it. We are able to take advantage of Apple free battery replacement program a couple of years ago. She doesn't see the need to upgrade to new phones as Whatsapp, Facebook, Insta and Google Maps etc. work just fine on her device.

I, on the other hand, have gone through several Android Flagship products in this period.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by selsta on Monday November 28, 2022 @05:53PM (#33781045)
WhatsApp runs on devices with iOS 12 or newer, that means even an iPhone 6 can still run it.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by ask_b123 on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:59PM (#33779531)
My iPhone (6) has been in use for +8 years.
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by jliptzin on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:53PM (#33779458)
My dad does
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by shagie on Monday November 28, 2022 @05:11PM (#33780589)
I upgraded my phone with the Black Friday sales... it was an iPhone 7 that I had gotten in 2016.

Eight years would be a bit long, but 6 years certainly isn't (the reason for my upgrade was that the battery wouldn't hold a charge for a full day and the "get a new phone" vs "upgrade the battery" was one I went with the new phone).

One of my coworkers has an iPhone 6.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by alvarezbjm-hn on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:44PM (#33779336)
My $350 Samsung A71 is two years old and feels brand new.

My sister's SG9+ is 4 years old and the screen is broken in two different places, but is only asking for a battery replacement.

Iphones did provide security updates for longer, which is easier when you have few models and a huge userbase.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by matkoniecz on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:57PM (#33779511)
> iPhones still last for at least twice as long.

I have a shitty android smartphone. It costs 14 times less than iphone.

Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by bigfudge on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:19PM (#33779856)
It’s also shitty the entire time you use it. Let’s compare apples with apples (or replace the fruit, but you know what I mean)
Re:Apple's reaction to protests: AirDrop is now limited to 1... by sngz on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:16PM (#33779809)
still using my galaxy s7 edge from 2016. Cracked screen but still working fine. Had to replace the battery once for it to just feel brand new again.