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Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by skim_milk on Saturday November 19, 2022 @07:37PM (#33676741)
Political data would suggest that we aren't actually being more empathic or accommodating, actually, the exact opposite!

Online communities are extremely disproportionally composed of people who fall into the Cluster B/emotionally dysregulated/CPTSD spectrum.

Internet addiction or "Internet Use Disorder" is nearly entirely composed of people in this camp. Same goes for trans people - this isn't an insult but an objective observation that these people need mental health help. To drive the point home - my ex-girlfriend worked at a mental institution for children and the majority all of them were trans and/or had BPD/Cluster B/CPTSD etc etc. At one point, all 5 children in their unit were trans!

Leadership should not use Internet communities as the north star for guiding the culture shifts of wider society, it will obviously lead to social friction. We risk crumbling the institution of science and higher education due to catering to the wants of Cluster B, all just so these people can move on to the next subject to split into good and evil parts.

The focus should be on providing help to Cluster B, NOT about letting them take control of society and crumble all of our institutions to pieces over dissociative morality plays, making everyone's health worse in the process.

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by Mountain_Skies on Saturday November 19, 2022 @08:15PM (#33677022)
Politicians, like many performers, are addicted to attention. Perhaps as much as they're addicted to power. The Internet is irresistible catnip for them and part of the reason why the chronically online are able to have so much impact on our 'leaders'.
Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by eternalban on Saturday November 19, 2022 @08:30PM (#33677120)
I agree with everything here but the presumption that "Leadership" is taking its cues from "internet communities" does not compute for me.

I for one am not so sure this so-called "leadership" cares for family, as a social unit. Accordingly, there is (for me at least) the possibility that this "leadership" is using a pretext to achieve related but orthogonal goals, since purely on rational, moral, and ethical basis, causing this much social division and disruption over this niche issue does not make any sense.

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by skim_milk on Saturday November 19, 2022 @09:02PM (#33677318)
>causing this much social division and disruption over this niche issue does not make any sense

The vast majority of people would agree!

However, in this environment, Cluster B have power advantages in the realm of social movements. Most social movements nowadays are disproportionally led by psychopaths (primary or secondary), people with Borderline Personality Disorder or narcissism (in short, people with Cluster B personality disorders), studies show.

It is impossible (yes, really, there have been studies) for healthy, normal people to understand the motivations of the mentally ill, including mild and severe Cluster B.

So, studies suggest that the confusion of the state of affairs and the inability to form a mentalizing theory of mind for the mild or severely mentally ill portion of leaders in social movements is actually a sign of health and intelligence :)

In short, expect even more confusion going forward into the future.

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by eternalban on Saturday November 19, 2022 @09:53PM (#33677653)
This still doesn't explain why the establishment promotes this unless you are implying that the establishment itself is the Cluster B central.
Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by skim_milk on Saturday November 19, 2022 @10:09PM (#33677773)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=238zU5UOreY is a conference talk from a Cluster B expert about the topic, highly regarded at least by his peers. For better or for worse, the speaker is actually a diagnosed Narcissist and Psychopath who previously went to prison for his crimes he committed during his employment as a high ranking official in the Israeli government, but I argue that makes him the best person to listen to, at least on this exact topic; sort of an insider view.
Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by eternalban on Saturday November 19, 2022 @10:27PM (#33677889)
Thanks for sharing, viewing now.

I think you'll enjoy this article from 1940: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/germany/1940-04-01/p... ("resonance")

(https://archive.ph/lZMnx)

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by SturgeonsLaw on Saturday November 19, 2022 @11:24PM (#33678227)
Embracing these perspectives enables:

1) Forced conformity

2) Stifling of dissent

3) Grassroots support of censorship

4) A cheap way for corporations/politicians to market their expression of "the right message"

5) A cheap way to undermine competitors who don't express "the right message"

6) Redirection of criticism of capitalism/the system/the elite towards other groups in the same economic class

7) Promoting division of the same, lowering their chances of organisation

8) A neverending outrage factory for the media to generate views

What's not to love from the establishment's point of view?

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by mindslight on Sunday November 20, 2022 @12:57PM (#33683348)
"If it bleeds, it leads".

The red political establishment loves things that make people recoil at the complexity of the real world. Even twenty years ago it was the prospect of artificial wombs and men having babies. Today it's humans with penises using the same bathroom as your daughter, amongst many other tempests in teapots.

Similarly, the blue political establishment loves vibrant examples of injustice, doubly so when that addressing that injustice doesn't rock the corporate order. So someone having what is essentially a rare medical/social condition, getting singled out and dumped on by the red team for political purposes, resonates strongly.

And thus is our hyper partisan world. It's not enough to ignore the topic because you don't actually know anyone who is transitioning, have it be fine to make some faux pas like when any cultures mingle, and rely on the general good faith of shared humanity to come to an understanding.

Rather, you've got to proactively stake your stance as some obtuse pro/anti, reject or "accept" an entire abstract group, and then conspicuously demonstrate your stance to the rest of your tribe.

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by l3uwin on Sunday November 20, 2022 @01:32AM (#33678838)
Yeah trying to label all trans people and most other minorities you don't like as a hyper-online cabal mentally-ill secretly controlling the world really says more about you than anything.

The 'our enemy is soooo weak, but also too strong' dillusion is very much on display

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by tablespoon on Sunday November 20, 2022 @02:04AM (#33678964)
> ...hyper-online cabal mentally-ill secretly controlling the world really says more about you than anything.

I didn't read that comment as saying that they "secretly control the world," but rather that the combination of changes in communication technology and those mental disorders leads those people to have a wildly disproportionate voice and impact.

I mean: elections are often won or lost based on which candidate can run the most ads. It's not too hard to believe that a disorders associated with excessive internet use would have an undue impact on society right now, due to something like having disproportionate share of social media posts.

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by l3uwin on Sunday November 20, 2022 @03:28AM (#33679321)
You need to touch grass
Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by palmetieri2000 on Sunday November 20, 2022 @03:37AM (#33679369)
>"Most social movements nowadays are disproportionally led by psychopaths (primary or secondary), people with Borderline Personality Disorder or narcissism (in short, people with Cluster B personality disorders), studies show."

POST

>"It is impossible (yes, really, there have been studies) for healthy, normal people to understand the motivations of the mentally ill, including mild and severe Cluster B."

THE

>"so, studies suggest that the confusion of the state of affairs and the inability to form a mentalizing theory of mind for the mild or severely mentally ill portion of leaders in social movements is actually a sign of health and intelligence :)"

STUDIES.

Considering you refer to no less than three amorphous groups of "studies", please post them. Otherwise it really only points towards you using the term because you think it gives you intellectual credibility.

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by l3uwin on Sunday November 20, 2022 @03:51AM (#33679424)
10$ says he cites Jordan Peterson
Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by palmetieri2000 on Sunday November 20, 2022 @05:27AM (#33679836)
Imagine downvoting a post asking you provide references you rely on to make your point.
Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by stubybubs on Sunday November 20, 2022 @12:48AM (#33678684)
> this isn't an insult but an objective observation that these people need mental health help. To drive the point home - my ex-girlfriend worked at a mental institution for children and the majority all of them were trans and/or had BPD/Cluster B/CPTSD etc etc. At one point, all 5 children in their unit were trans!

What exactly are you saying here? That all the trans kids had cluster B personality disorders? You said and/or but the rest of you post seems to be implying that all trans people have cluster B personality disorders. There are lots of other reasons to be a psychiatric inpatient that are not cluster B personality disorders, and CPTSD is also not a personality disorder of any type.

It's not particularly suprising that trans kids end up as inpatients in psychiatric wards. My experience with them is that they know that the vast majority of the world absolutely hates them. I mean, I heard about this one internet comment that implied that they all have cluster B personality disorders. Absolutely shocking.

Your whole thesis reads weird. There are estimated to be about a million trans people in the US. You really think that many are "extremely online?" Do they all have cluster B personality disorders? Are none of them living quiet lives?

Do you do this with all minorities?

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by skim_milk on Sunday November 20, 2022 @02:25AM (#33679058)
Essentially the point was linking the available literature and data on IUD, Cluster B, trans-people, and power struggles together. We are, after all, in a thread about making sense of how a population the size of a rounding error got to rewrite the literature on birth.

No judgement, I don't judge people on mental health. Unless someone is calling to make institutional changes that undermine the public's trust in it, then I will exert my right to judge these people's character.

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by stubybubs on Sunday November 20, 2022 @06:02PM (#33686470)
> Essentially the point was linking the available literature and data on IUD, Cluster B, trans-people, and power struggles together.

You didn't do this though. You just said that your ex-girlfriend worked in a psychiatric ward and there were lots of people with cluster B and lots of trans kids. It was honestly just a mess of associations.

Psychiatric comorbidities in transgender people are reasonably well studied so you don't have to guess here. There are a number of small studies involving presentations to psychiatrists, but this is no longer the way that most trans people seek care, so the results are biased to complicated cases. Here is a large study comparing gender-minority coded files in a group of 53M patients:

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/trgh.2019.0029

As you'd expect, depression and anxiety are extremely common. Cluster B personality disorders are at a prevalence of 3.4%, though again, attention must be paid to the limitations of the study which fails to capture transgender people seeking care outside of this system. While it's certainly elevated of the general population, please internalize the fact that 96-97% of transgender people do not have a cluster B personality disorder.

As I've pointed out above, minorities are medicine's business. We absolutely write things in a way to include everyone, because we definitely want to get the most at-risk people out there. I don't care what you think about transgender men, you should want them to seek reproductive care if they are pregnant, because there is potentially another person involved or not, depending on what they choose to do.

Like I said above. There are about 40,000 people living with cystic fibrosis in the USA, about 1/3200 live births. It's really expensive to keep these people alive, with replacement enzymes, biologics, very, very frequent hospital admissions to the point where pediatrics calls them "CF tune-ups" and eventually lung or possibly multi-organ transplants. They do, however, have intrinsic human value, so we like to keep them alive. I don't think changing literature is a huge ask here, especially given that in a care context we still say "pregnant woman" when it's specifically a woman that I'm talking about, even though we say "pregnant people" in the abstract.

Re:The erasure of women from online pregnancy literature by _Tev on Thursday November 24, 2022 @05:48AM (#33729837)
> I don't think changing literature is a huge ask here

That's the assumption that is (indirectly) being questioned here. I don't have strong opinion either way, just trying to show how to steelman better.