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Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Animats on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:09AM (#33635891)
Oh, like the Pegasus air-launch system. Works fine, but not a huge win on cost.

I'm surprised that anyone wants to launch from that far north. Most launch sites are further south, so you get more velocity from the earth's rotation.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Rebelgecko on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:35AM (#33636016)
I think the main win is flexibility, you don't need as much infrastructure at your "spaceport". The payload is small so the fuel savings from launching closer to the equator would be minimal, especially for higher inclination orbits. Plus it's an easy political win to do the launches locally (the UK's plan calls for spaceport in Scotland, England, and Wales. I suppose that's their equivalent of NASA projects being built in all 50 states to spread the pork around). Plus doing launches in overseas colonies/possessions can be politically fraught. It occasionally has been an issue in France
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Tomte on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:11AM (#33635904)
Southernmost tip of the UK… Gibraltar! ;-)
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by zeristor on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:35AM (#33636012)
Or the Malvinas.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by bloak on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:03AM (#33636173)
Which are slightly further from the equator than London!
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by easytiger on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:29AM (#33636310)
Your typing impediment misspelt "Falkland Islands"
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by labster on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:45AM (#33636398)
Or another occupied territory, Diego Garcia.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Symbiote on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:09AM (#33636563)
The Falkland Islands are only as "occupied" as Argentina itself.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by raverbashing on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:14AM (#33636230)
To be fair I don't think it would fit there. Another big maybe would be the channel islands
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by krona on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:29AM (#33636313)
Have you not seen thunderbirds?!
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by petesergeant on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:33AM (#33636705)
BOTs don’t count as the UK, or you could use British Antarctic Territory… Ascension Island is very close to the equator
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by usrusr on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:48AM (#33636791)
> Ascension Island is very close to the equator

Oh, the branding opportunities!

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by pjc50 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:08AM (#33636935)
Sovereign Cyprus base territories!
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by moreati on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:46AM (#33636082)
There's been talk of a spaceport in Scotland as well (possibly a competing bid to this). The touted benefit of being further North was easier launches into polar orbits.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by onion2k on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:34AM (#33636341)
Works fine, but not a huge win on cost.

There are more costs than just the launch itself though. The UK has a pretty big space industry. Lots of satellites and satellite components are made here. Not needing to ship your payload to Kazakstan probably saves a few quid if you're building a lot of it in the UK, and the reduced risk of it being damaged in transit will help significantly.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by matkoniecz on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:31AM (#33637088)
And reduces political risks.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by teh_klev on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:40AM (#33636373)
> I'm surprised that anyone wants to launch from that far north. Most launch sites are further south, so you get more velocity from the earth's rotation.

The reason is that Scotland and northerly launch sites favour launches into polar orbits.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by bagels on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:37AM (#33636027)
This is kind of surprising. I knew that UK had built and launched rockets to orbit early on, but apparently only in Australia. I'd expected that some of the early testing might've been done there.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by tzfld on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:42AM (#33636055)
This is an airborne launch, meaning the spaceport will have only the takeoff of the host airplane. The launch itself will be above the sea.

The rocket was developed and built in the US and projected to be launched from multiple countries around the world.

So nothing UK specific in it.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by jl6 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:05AM (#33636184)
The early testing for those launches was done on the Isle of Wight, but AFAIK nothing went to orbit from that site.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by kilolima on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:45AM (#33636401)
Yes, at the bottom of Tennyson Down before the Needles! A concrete rocket motor hard stand built into the side of the slope. Slept out on it for a lunar eclipse one summer night.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by mnw21cam on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:50AM (#33636799)
It's a good choice of location, because you have a decent chunk of Isle of Wight in between the noise of the rocket (and any consequences of rapid unscheduled disassemblies) and populated land.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Denvercoder9 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:05AM (#33636535)
The geography of the UK isn't really suitable for space launches. You want to launch eastwards to benefit from the rotation of the Earth, and (unless you're China) you don't want to launch over land in case your rocket fails. Launch sites further south might also be preferable as they have better access to low inclination orbits (though for polar orbits you'd prefer northern launch sites). There's no good location in the UK that satisfies all these. Btw, the US does most of its launches from Floria for much the same reasons.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by bagels on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:53AM (#33636829)
Lots of stuff in sso and other high inclination, at least uk latitude is ok for those, I'd imagine.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Reason077 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:31AM (#33637091)
> “The geography of the UK isn't really suitable for space launches.”

Scotland is actually a pretty good location for polar and sun-synchronous (SSO) orbits. You can do coastal launches over the sea, while still being relatively close to populated regions with good transport link and infrastructure.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48119118.amp

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by philipwhiuk on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:35AM (#33637124)
Mediocre transport links and infrastructure at best.

The route to the Highlands site is an A-road in name only - it's one way for most of the route. The nearest train station is about 15 miles away.

The route to the Shetlands site is a prop plane or a ferry and then a decent drive on fairly minor roads including another ferry.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by smackay on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:15AM (#33637383)
The only way by road into the Moine Peninsula would be along the A836 up through the centre of Sutherland. You'd probably need to upgrade the entire length of road to be able to accommodate heavy loads and take out any tight turns. Possibly more practical would be to build a port in Loch Eriboll and ship absolutely everything in. The expense, in either case, would be eye-watering. In short that BBC article is one long on imagination and short on everything else.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by cricalix on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:12AM (#33636961)
The UK put a satellite up into space, and the Treasury shut the program down the very same day. Satellite is still up there, trying to communicate.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1214197384382754816.html (or https://nitter.net/garius/status/1214197384382754816)

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by pjc50 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:17AM (#33636984)
The UK cancelled its Black Arrow rocket programme at exactly the worst possible time: after all the money had been spent, but before any benefits were realised. The rocket that was launched only happened because those responsible decided to ignore the cancellation and do the launch anyway.

Common problem in UK big project funding.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by matkoniecz on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:27AM (#33637057)
> rocket that was launched only happened because those responsible decided to ignore the cancellation and do the launch anyway.

From what I remember they convinced treasury that launching rocket and satellite is the cheapest form of disposing it

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by londons_explore on Thursday November 17, 2022 @07:32AM (#33638008)
Which is clearly rubbish - plenty of people would have bought a rocket for a dollar...

And besides, the fuel could be resold, and all the metals would have had scrap value.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by rob74 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:16AM (#33636603)
> [the site] had satisfied the authorities that it had the infrastructure, equipment and services for horizontal space launches.

Same as any other airport that can accomodate a 747? You can call it a "horizontal space launch" to make it sound important, but it's basically just a plane taking off?

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by chinathrow on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:29AM (#33636689)
I assume handling a rocket suitable for an air-launch needs some additional safety considerations while handled on the ground.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by dsfyu404ed on Thursday November 17, 2022 @08:40AM (#33638683)
You're trucking in an airframe, fuel, oxygen and assembling the product.

All of these things routinely get trucked around and there's already an established system of rules for doing so.

Sure, assembling and fueling the vehicle is a little different but it's not much different than the fuel truck and the oxygen truck showing up to a chemical plant on the same morning. Airports already have precedent and procedure for handling exotic fuels.

The cargo here is no more interesting or deserving of special care (and in some cases it's less) than the stuff the oil and gas industry flies around the north sea.

I'm sure "but safety" is how the bureaucrats justify the extra make-work but that's a pretty worthless justification in a world where you don't need a special site permit to load a case of explosives or hazmat onto a chopper so long as you follow the preexisting handling requirements for whatever it is you're handling.

So yeah, I see this as pointless red tape and it's doubly a nuisance seeing as commercial space flight is a fledging industry that probably should be nurtured by government rather than fought. If they were actually shooting off rockets I'd feel differently but that's not the case.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by jjk166 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:53PM (#33642804)
You know you have to fill out quite a bit of paperwork to demonstrate you are capable of safely handling chemicals when building and operating a chemical plant too.

An airport needs a special license to be a spaceport not because it is fundamentally harder, just because it requires a different skillset.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Tepix on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:58AM (#33636859)
Indeed. It's a bit of a downer.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by lloydatkinson on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:07AM (#33637336)
The entire UK space industry has been a downer for the last 50 years.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Oxidation on Thursday November 17, 2022 @07:51AM (#33638187)
The only country ever to gain satellite launch capability and lose it again.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by actionfromafar on Thursday November 17, 2022 @08:53AM (#33638862)
One launch. Then packed it up and left.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by KineticLensman on Thursday November 17, 2022 @07:59AM (#33638265)
> The entire UK space industry has been a downer for the last 50 years

True for launches but we have a lot of innovation in satellite design and manufacture. E.g. ion drives used in Earth orbit and for planetary missions [0] and [1]

[0] https://www.qinetiq.com/en/blogs/postcards-from-space-ion-th...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrey_Satellite_Technology#Sa...

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by mywacaday on Monday November 21, 2022 @05:19AM (#33690930)
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by jbj on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:44AM (#33637188)
I always though that spaceports needed enormous area of ocean/desert or other inhabitat land to the immediate east to have potential crashes not endanger anyone. (east is due to the rotation direction of our planet)
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by Balero on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:19AM (#33637410)
It depends on the final orbit. For most orbits you are 100% correct, and I would also add that the ideal position is as close to the equator as possible.

For some orbits (for example around the poles) the UK is actually a good place. Though I don't know the exact details.

Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by discodachshund on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:07AM (#33637340)
Unless you're aiming for polar or high inclination orbits, which the in progress spaceport in Scotland is likely targeting
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by _448 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:06AM (#33637332)
It is good that two similar projects are happening in the UK, one in the north, in Scotland, and one in the south, in Cornwall. These are the types of projects that are required that will boost the economy and prepare younger generation for better jobs. How much ever a small step it might be, it is a good start.
Re:Spaceport Cornwall awarded licence to host UK’s first spa... by andrewshadura on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:03AM (#33640859)
I think they should improve the sad state of railways and public transport in general in Cornwall before even thinking about building a spaceport.