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Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by queuebert on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:02PM (#33599131)
Covid has killed millions. How many have died of myocarditis? While I agree with your sentiment, it's hyperbolic to claim the vaccine has done "exponentially more damage than the virus".
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by calculatte on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:36PM (#33599697)
With the way the numbers around Covid and Covid deaths were cooked, there is no way to determine how many died from Covid.

Excess mortality is higher now than during Covid https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-excess-deaths-hi...

There is evidence of statistical lies perpetuated to benefit big pharma.

  - The extreme false positive rate of COVID testing
  - Blindly combining "of" and "with" Covid cases for cause of death based on those same broken tests.
  - Influenza, pneumonia magically took a couple of years off during Covid
  - PCR testing cycles at extreme highs
When all of the broken testing was finally admitted and discontinued, were the previous misclassified deaths reinvestigated or reclassified? Of course not.

The entire pool of data of Covid deaths has been poisoned. There is no interest in accuracy. But there does seem to be extreme interest in protecting the liability and profits of the pharma companies that coerced unproven, untested, ineffective "cures" that do not prevent infection, spread, or reduce symptoms.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by AustinDev on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:45PM (#33599830)
Just a meta comment. This exact comment 1 year ago would have been downvoted until it was dead. However, much of the evidence for this was available at that time. I sadly think we'll continue to see excess deaths climb over the coming years particularly in the US.

I'm glad I only got the J&J shot way back when it came out and avoided 3+ rounds of Pfizer or Moderna primary and boosters.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by calculatte on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:19PM (#33601256)
It seems the only difference between conspiracy theory and accepted fact is about 18 months now.
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by dzader on Monday November 14, 2022 @05:10PM (#33601981)
you need to get off the internet for a few hours a day buddy
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by Izkata on Monday November 14, 2022 @05:21PM (#33602130)
Depending on the exact claim it's often more like 12 months. A few even made it down to 6 months (affecting periods, for example) and I think one was as low as 2 months.
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by hedora on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:46PM (#33599848)
Ok, I'll ignore the bit where you implicitly claim that 1000's of independent county health offices colluded to produce excess corpses before the vaccine came out, and then somehow hid exponentially more corpses after it came out.

Excess mortality is higher now because we're in the middle of a massive rebound of all the other respiratory illnesses (that were stopped by widespread masking and record flu vaccination last year). Also Covid is still around. Omicron has partially "escaped" the updated vaccines (which you should take anyway).

Source for the respiratory illness spike:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/southeast-us-has-hit...

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by calculatte on Monday November 14, 2022 @03:11PM (#33600247)
Go ahead and ignore it, because that isn't what I said or implied at all.
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by hedora on Monday November 14, 2022 @06:23PM (#33602891)
Well, then how do you explain the discrepancy between all available data and the claims you are making?
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by neuronexmachina on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:53PM (#33599965)
> Excess mortality is higher now than during Covid

Interesting analysis of the UK's excess mortality published in the BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2524

> Surprisingly, mortality rates in 2022 for most of the 10 leading “underlying” causes of death such as heart disease, stroke, and lung and colorectal cancer have been similar to previous years, or lower than expected. An exception is the rate for “symptoms, signs, and ill defined conditions” (mostly deaths resulting from old age and frailty) which has consistently been higher than expected and also caused the most excess deaths, but not enough to explain the overall excess.4

> However, the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities’ (OHID) analysis of deaths by “any mention” on the death certificate—rather than just the “underlying cause” of death—shows a substantial excess, in particular, of deaths from cardiovascular diseases and diabetes since April,6 prompting an investigation by the Department of Health and Social Care. Growing evidence suggests that covid-19 increases the risk of cardiovascular problems even months after infection,7 which could in part be driving excess deaths. Covid-19 itself remains the sixth leading cause of death, causing 200-400 deaths weekly—a reminder that this virus remains a threat for the foreseeable future.

> Another possibility is that people may not be receiving the care they need from an NHS that was already overstretched pre-pandemic and is now coping with unprecedented backlogs of care and pressures on emergency services. This “crisis” situation has an adverse impact on all patients, but a lack of timely care can be especially life threatening for people with acute cardiovascular problems.

> ONS analysis shows about 3300 excess deaths occurred during the heatwaves experienced in England and Wales between June and August, mostly in older people.8

> ONS also notes that excess deaths can occur following periods when deaths were lower than average, ie, “mortality displacement.”5 Could some of the excess deaths since April reflect the lower ASMRs in early 2022?

I'm also curious about why there's such a difference in relative excess death rates between the US and UK. Currently in the US the weekly death rates are far below what they were in 2020-2021: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by skyde on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:20PM (#33601280)
what do you mean by "than during Covid"? are you trying to imply covid have been eradicated ?
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by dekhn on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:38PM (#33601540)
They mean the period from roughly March 2020 to ... hmm, about Omicron.
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by the_why_of_y on Monday November 14, 2022 @05:43PM (#33602423)
The numbers were cooked particularly badly in Russia. There are 2 different government agencies reporting Covid deaths and excess deaths, and their numbers differ by a factor of 7; meanwhile many deaths are reported as caused by "viral pneumonia".

Meanwhile for the US and European countries, Covid death and excess death numbers are pretty close.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/10/world/europe/covid-russia...

> Excess mortality is higher now than during Covid

When did Covid disappear? This year, every week at least 2000 people died of Covid in the US.

> - Influenza, pneumonia magically took a couple of years off during Covid

Have you heard of mask mandates? How do you think they affect the spread of Influenza?

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by pvaldes on Tuesday November 15, 2022 @04:22AM (#33607020)
> The extreme false positive rate of COVID testing

So those tools developed in one tenth of time of the normal tests aren't perfect. Hardly shocking. All tests have intervals of confidence attached, because Science is not magic. Some people never really understood this.

> Blindly combining "of" and "with" Covid cases for cause of death based on those same broken tests.

Either you have a test that works or don't. If they detected covid most of the cases when people had it and failed in the rest, they work. Much better than having no tools at all.

It does not matter if you die directly by a disease or by the sequels of the disease. If people were not dying from covid, this still leads us with the problem that people were dying more often than in normal years. How do we explain it?

If something was proven between 2019 and 2022 is that overreacting saves lives and ignoring the problem kills people. Being conservative and overzelous in the middle of a new unknown pandemic was the correct way to manage it.

> Influenza, pneumonia magically took a couple of years off during Covid

Easily explainable when almost everybody was using masks and social distance in those two years and a proof that masks worked, at least partially.

> PCR testing cycles at extreme highs

I'm unsure about what you want say with that. PCR testing needs to chase an organism that is mutating at extreme highs so they need to change at a high pace. This is how virology works. The tests have a caducity time also, as any other sophisticated chemical reactive used in a lab. "But, but, they got rich!". Yep. A company developping a product in high demand, earn lots of money normally. So what?

> and profits of the pharma companies that coerced unproven, untested, ineffective "cures" that do not prevent infection, spread, or reduce symptoms.

To start, vaccines never claimed to prevent infection.

About spread. Too litle, too late and one step forward, two backward. Negationists and agents actively promoted the disease and deliberately created chaos. People was videotaped deliberately coughing in the face of other after tearing off their masks. The same people were videotaped later directing the mass to commit a coup and trying to sell information from the capitol to Russian agents. None of them where found linked with pharma companies (and is very unlikely that a pharma company would lobby for convincing people to reject pharma products).

Maybe is not really fair to blame pharma for this while forgetting the cultists.

Vaccines really reduced symptoms and saved people. This is true. Is not difficult at all to spot the benefits if you look at the data. Is proven empirically that most of the zillions of people that received the vaccines didn't developped serious collateral effects and died less than the people that rejected them. There are dozens of notorious antivacs videotaped bragging about the "inoffensive" disease, actively trying to caught it and realizing too late that were dying by covid. I agree that the main cause of death here should be stupidity, not covid.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by TheBigSalad on Tuesday November 15, 2022 @12:24PM (#33612197)
It looks slightly higher now, but within a margin of error. Also Covid still exists and is still killing people and didn't exist 5 years ago.
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by NaturalPhallacy on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:11PM (#33599260)
Millions die every year for we are mortal and numerous. Thankfully, the world's population grew during the pandemic.

210,000 to 448,000 Americans die every year to preventable medical errors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_causes_of_death#An...

This is more people than COVID kills in the same time period, but strangely there's no panic about that. No mandates. No significant steps from any authorities to do anything about it. Perhaps because there's no money in that, unlike pushing a remedy for something that's not as significant as people feel.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by cableshaft on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:28PM (#33599551)
What would be the mandate for user error (which is what 'preventable medical errors' boils down to), beyond an ongoing attempt to improve procedures in hospitals which I'm sure they're already doing, especially since the US is very litigious and they often get sued for malpractice.

Humans are messy, can't hold all knowledge about everything in their heads at all times, and error prone. Unless you replace them entirely you're not going to be able to eliminate medical errors.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by Fomite on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:05PM (#33601037)
There are a staggering number of mandates and regulations around preventable medical errors. One that has been absolutely defining is CMS not compensating for healthcare-associated infections.

Also, many hospitals view things like infection control or antimicrobial stewardship as cost centers, and they're not doing nearly as much as they can.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by puffoflogic on Tuesday November 15, 2022 @04:04AM (#33606917)
Hint: if you don't want to "slow down", just don't post anything dang disagrees with or might disagree with. Works every time.
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by anon291 on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:04PM (#33599167)
First do no harm
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by TehCorwiz on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:10PM (#33599250)
Chemo Therapy is literally poisoning you just enough to kill the cancer.

The anti-arthritis medications I take cause terrible side effects.

These options are still better than the underlying problems. Throwing out pithy feel good quotes doesn't capture the nuance of the line that doctors walk when trying to treat illnesses. "Do no harm" is the ideal. In reality it's to do less harm than the disease.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by tibbydudeza on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:42PM (#33599794)
It reminds me of how Japanese honeybees kill hornets - they overheat it by swarming it and flapping their wings vigorously to transfer body heat and cook it alive.

They fortunately can tolerate a few degrees higher core temperature than the hornet - it can't be good for the bees but if your lifespan is 60 days.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by chedca21 on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:19PM (#33599400)
BMJ in 2020 said covid was about as bad as bird flu; https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425/rr-31

"Professor John Ioannidis of Stanford University, quotes an infection fatality rate (IFR) for Covid of 0.00-0.57% (0.05% for under 70s), far lower than originally feared and no different to severe flu [3]. This paper is published on WHO’s own Bulletin but ignored by UK mainstream media."

The public health measures were unjustified. We only ever should have protected seniors, rather we displaced ICU occupancy into long tern care homes. Mad world

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by ceejayoz on Monday November 14, 2022 @03:03PM (#33600127)
Ioannidis was wrong, though. Drastically so. Analyzing excess deaths make it very clear it's not the same severity as severe flu; see the chart half-way down on https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm.

At the time, he wrote (https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-a...):

> Some worry that the 68 deaths from Covid-19 in the U.S. as of March 16 will increase exponentially to 680, 6,800, 68,000, 680,000 … along with similar catastrophic patterns around the globe. Is that a realistic scenario, or bad science fiction? How can we tell at what point such a curve might stop?

It did exactly that.

Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by flir on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:07PM (#33599189)
Well that's surgery out the window.
Re:Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible... by Xylakant on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:12PM (#33599278)
This is not a good rule if taken to the extreme. Almost all medical procedures have an associated risk, some higher. The key question is whether the risk outweighs the benefits.