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Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by gonzo41 on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:07AM (#33590656)
I may be a few days early, but I think it's the beginning of the end for crypto. It's going to burn a lot of people. Trust will never be restored.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by tux on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:21AM (#33590750)
I agree, I think crypto won't survive for too much longer. Just by looking at BTC price for the last six months it dropped -14,201.80 (47.23%)[1] and just in one day -434.70 (2.67%). I'll take about six more months to one year but BTC will cost below 5k soon :) This is my prediction.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=btc+price

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by hiq on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:56AM (#33591273)
By just looking at prices, you'd think that tech also won't survive much longer.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by irusensei on Monday November 14, 2022 @03:01AM (#33591302)
So Bitcoin stops processing blocks at 5k USD. I had no idea this could happen.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by paulgb on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:42AM (#33591882)
It doesn’t stop processing blocks, miners just make less money for each one. Some miners will pull out of the market, making it easier for the rest to mine, until the market finds an equilibrium. The cost of attacking the system will go down, but it won’t stop entirely.

Some miners are already spending more on energy & operations cost per coin than the market value, so even if the price holds I expect to see some miners drop out of the market.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by lupire on Monday November 14, 2022 @09:20AM (#33594238)
-75% in 1 year is a more impressive number.

-0% in 2 years is a less impressive number.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by 3a2d29 on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:10AM (#33590675)
I think you underestimate how attractive “get rich quick” schemes are, especially to new generations that didn’t experience the fad yet.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by gonzo41 on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:13AM (#33590701)
Institutional investors are starting to get burned. I think it's over. But yes I agree on your broader point. Money for no work is always attractive.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by EGreg on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:35AM (#33590831)
Isn't that what VCs have been doing all the way through Web2?

Now it's just democratized. But at least Web2 led to tech that served a lot of people, until it got commoditized. Crypto doesn't really have great applications yet. (With a few exceptions.)

I seem to remember Softbank propping up companies like WeWork... and spectacularly losing money. Even this year they lost a lot. Uber and many others were basically money-losing unit economics being propped up by ever larger infusions of money until the stocks were dumped on the eager public in an IPO. But at least the corporations serve people.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443720204578004...

How were Adam Neumann, Travis Kalanick and Elizabeth Holmes any better than these crypto bros?

The online advertising industry is in a constant race to the bottom. Look at how much Facebook and Google dropped relative to, say, Apple and Verizon.

Throughout all this, the open source community in Web1, Web2, Web3 has been building some amazing stuff, but people like to create business models to dump

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by TheOtherHobbes on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:38AM (#33591862)
Neumann, Kalanick, and Holmes are the same kind of person as these crypto bros.

People still seem to think they're an aberration.

They're not. The entire modern economy is fundamentally scammy. Especially, but not exclusively, the financial industry.

Crypto is just the stinky tip of an iceberg of fraud and predatory exploitation which goes all the way from top to bottom.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by gsibble on Monday November 14, 2022 @09:27AM (#33594336)
Very true. Business used to be about the honest exchange of value. Now almost everything is a scam. I've seen it with my own eyes over the last 30 years. It's horrible.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by csomar on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:03AM (#33590978)
Institutional investors are ashes now (look at GBTC, trading 30% below BTC price). This is not the first time it happened in tech, market or history. Bubbles and euphoria are older than Crypto.

Bitcoin will be back in a few years in a new bubble. Halving in 2 years...

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by dmix on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:33AM (#33591834)
Market corrections are often a good thing. It'd be good for crypto to realign with the actual value it provides so capital centers on things that actually provide value!

That's the only way it will grow.

Betting on investors risk tolerance for cryptos success is a losers game long-term. At least from a technologist perspective. From a finance perspective there's plenty of money to be made if you aren't left holding the cards.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by rwmj on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:50AM (#33591929)
> It'd be good for crypto to realign with the actual value it provides

It earns nothing so that's near zero. (Not quite zero because apparently you can use it to buy drugs or avoid export controls)

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by csomar on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:55AM (#33591960)
The drug market is estimated at 2 Trillions. I don't know, though, about export controls. That being said, I think the level that crypto is being used for money laundering or drugs is really minimal.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by paulpauper on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:14AM (#33590713)
by that logic, beanie babies should have recovered due to gen-z , obviously it hasn't. Sure, get rich quick schemes will always exist, but the scheme changes.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by BlueTemplar on Monday November 14, 2022 @05:40AM (#33592279)
Beanie babies don't have a history of half a dozen of recoveries after similar events.

To use your metaphor, Bitcoin and Ethereum are more in the [schemes] class, rather than two specific schemes.

Now of course nothing is eternal, but years-shorting crypto is too much of a risk for me.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by simsspoons on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:11AM (#33590681)
Or maybe it’s the beginning of the end for centralized exchanges
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by smt88 on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:15AM (#33590717)
Then it's also the end of crypto as a consumer product. Centralized exchanges offered a ton of usability and monetary incentives that brought people into crypto.

Trying to rebuild a user base without those things will essentially be impossible. Even during the days of free money in 2021, the full crypto user base wasn't huge. With high interest rates, tons of fraud in the rearview mirror, and enormous obstacles to usage, the community will be a tiny fraction of even its previous tiny fraction of traditional banking customers.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by tsimionescu on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:16AM (#33590724)
Is there any real alternative for money (dollars) to make it into and out of the system, at large scale?
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by ac29 on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:19AM (#33590735)
Stablecoins
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by pavlov on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:31AM (#33590802)
And where do you cash them out? At Tether’s Bahamas office?
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by pjc50 on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:50AM (#33591926)
(+) Note: must be a non-US person, minimum transaction $101,000
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by europeanguy on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:29AM (#33590793)
Stablecoins are great. Personally I recommend USD.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by tsimionescu on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:26AM (#33590774)
How exactly will you turn 1USD into 1USDT or 1USDC or vice-versa without opening an account with a centralized exchange?
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by csomar on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:07AM (#33591007)
$10-100K: You can P2P your way through your local discord channel, paxful or gift cards.

$100K-$1m: At this point, you are looking at a heavily regulated exchange or an OTC trader. Those exists (ie: Gemini).

$1m+: Deal OTC directly with an "exchanger" that has a banking license. (There is one in WY)

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by lupire on Monday November 14, 2022 @09:33AM (#33594449)
At <$100K, what is the %loss due to fraud?
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by saberdancer on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:11AM (#33591025)
Exchanges are not a problem.

If FTX kept to their ToS they would have all the funds available and there would be no collapse. But they were greedy, decided to use user funds without authorization, then lost them and the whole thing came coming down.

Exchange which is transparent and truly does not trade with customer assets has no risk involved (other than hacking and similar) and should/would be a massive money printing machine.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by gst on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:59AM (#33590958)
I'm not going to predict any crypto future, but here's a counter point: If crypto has a future (not saying it will) then it's essential to drive bad actors out of the market (which is happening right now).
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by pbourke on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:37AM (#33591167)
What if nearly everyone is a bad actor?
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by BuyMyBitcoins on Monday November 14, 2022 @03:34AM (#33591498)
Perhaps crypto is just like those ecosystems in Australia that require conflagrations in order for the forest to live through its life cycle.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by lupire on Monday November 14, 2022 @09:20AM (#33594243)
What if there is no forest?
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by saberdancer on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:08AM (#33591015)
I am very amazed that crypto prices have not plummeted after FTX revelations. That looks like a very big condemnation of the whole system and the market barely moved.

I am not convinced it will end crypto, a lot of people still want to speculate and the system is too extensive to topple easily. Market not moving seems to be proof of that.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by pixel_tracing on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:51AM (#33591240)
You underestimate the number of fools involved who will forget this incident
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by sgt101 on Monday November 14, 2022 @12:21PM (#33597458)
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by zeroclip on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:01AM (#33591661)
Beginning of the end for unregulated centralized exchanges. Possible beginning for DeFi and regulated CEXes. Or possible that regulators fail to distinguish them, and crypto stays flat for some years until a trad banking event revived interest in blockchain.

But really who cares? Smart contracts and stablecoins can continue to work the same no matter market volatility.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by lupire on Monday November 14, 2022 @09:21AM (#33594263)
> Smart contracts and stablecoins can continue to work the same no matter market volatility.

Even ignoring the constant hacks of smart contracts, work for what purpose?

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by zeroclip on Monday November 14, 2022 @10:22AM (#33595263)
A lot of the same things that these failing CEXes are doing. Custody of coins, trading, exchanging tokens, long and short positions, borrowing and lending. Most people on FTX are day traders or hodlers.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by coffeeblack on Monday November 14, 2022 @04:52AM (#33591948)
Another year, another “the end of crypto” prediction. Oh well.