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Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by ceejayoz on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:28PM (#33398914)
The whole point of Mastodon is there's not just one server. Pick one you like; hell, Gab is built on Mastodon.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:32PM (#33398958)
So it is fair to say Mastodon is already nazi friendly since nazis can just host their own servers?
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by ahelwer on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:43PM (#33399067)
Just like phpbb is nazi friendly because nazis can run their own phpbb forum server.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:47PM (#33399110)
Yes, that is a fair assessment. Unfortunately, I don't know what the solution to this is.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by Cyberdog on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:52PM (#33399187)
The solution is mentioned above. Unironic nazis/white nationalists/white supremacists will only last long on free-speech-oriented instances which are likely to be defederated from any instances which explicitly disallow hate speech. Pick one of those latter instances as your home, and you will most likely never see a "nazi" on your timeline unless you go out of your way to go hunting for one.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by ceejayoz on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:46PM (#33399095)
It's fair to say you can pick a Mastodon server based on rules that make sense to you, which is not the case for Twitter. If your server admin starts posting nutty propaganda (as Musk did today; https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/elon-musk-new-owner-twi...), you can migrate somewhere else in a matter of minutes.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by augustuspolius on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:26PM (#33399592)
(not familiar with Mastodon tech) Would I be able to move my social graph as well in your example, or just content? E.g. if I first registered an account at mastodon.se and many other mastodon.se users followed me, would they still see my updates if I move to a different instance (or if I am banned from mastodon.se)?
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by ceejayoz on Sunday October 30, 2022 @07:01PM (#33399937)
I just migrated myself from mastodon.social to a self-hosted instance. After a few minutes my followers all ported over fine.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by augustuspolius on Sunday October 30, 2022 @07:16PM (#33400069)
Is it fair to say that now if I follow you on any instance and then you are banned from that instance, I will continue following you and seeing your posts because your identity is owned by your self-hosted instance?
[dead]
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by ceejayoz on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:54PM (#33399208)
That's a really odd way of looking at open source software.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by Cyberdog on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:55PM (#33399211)
Mastodon is just an interface for the larger Fediverse network. It does not control the network any more than Microsoft Outlook controls the email network.

Similarly, email is a "nazi friendly" technology. Are you going to not use email because of that? It's not reasonable to base every choice in your life around whether a "nazi" could potentially make the same choice.

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by goodpoint on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:59PM (#33399256)
> Mastodon needs to do something to combat that.

If only there was a decentralized social network where you can choose who to federate with...

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by fsflover on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:56PM (#33399230)
> technology that is nazi friendly.

Is Windows already banning all nazi users?

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by sschueller on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:47PM (#33399109)
Yes and no. Mastodon has been popular with the alt right because they have been banned from other platforms but these "nazi" servers are probably not part of network you join. I doubt a car enthusiasts server would be following any political server.

Since every server can pick which servers they want to federate with certain groups will not connect with each other. This however doesn't prevent you from having two accounts.

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by themitigating on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:02PM (#33399290)
The alt right isn't banned from any platform
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by bheadmaster on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:48PM (#33399123)
That would be as correct as saying that electricity is nazi friendly because nazis can just run their own power generators.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:53PM (#33399197)
That sounds terrible, why are nazis allowed to do that???
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by bheadmaster on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:17PM (#33399477)
Gee, wait till you hear about Nazis being allowed to grow their own food...
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by yanderekko on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:08PM (#33399354)
I could absolutely see people saying that the power-generators are Nazi-friendly in this circumstance, and that the people selling/servicing them should be criticized accordingly.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by bheadmaster on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:17PM (#33399468)
Going by that logic, naturally grown food is Nazi-friendly because Nazis can just plant them in their backyard. Should people selling seeds/seedlings be criticized accordingly?

That whole argument seems like a badly disguised call for total surveillance.

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by yanderekko on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:30PM (#33399638)
> Should people selling seeds/seedlings be criticized accordingly?

Well, the line of cancelling someone until they literally cannot attain food has not been crossed... yet. But if say the Nazis were selling organic food to fund their activities, plenty of people would say it's wrong to sell seeds to the Nazis.

I'm not saying that I support this, just that this is what I see the "duty to cancel" arguments implying under these circumstances.

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by bheadmaster on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:48PM (#33399800)
I'm sorry if I implied you do/don't support any of the arguments we're discussing. I seem to have a bit of confrontational style of arguing, I'll try to tone it down in the future.

On the original point - it seems to me that the whole cancel culture is just an attempt by a vocal minority to bypass democratic system. Centuries of lawmaking have made some things legal and others not, walking very thin lines between good and bad decisions in order to maintain the balance between totalitarism and lawlessness - and suddenly a mob of random internet dwellers think they can get their way by throwing tantrums and bend the rules as they wish.

I'm annoyed at the very efficiency with which mob manages to cancel whoever does anything remotely "unacceptable" by their unwritten, "come on dude we all know that", rules... It seems like the futute is likely to be lead by loud demagogues skilled at tapping into the mob rage of the society and cleverly weaponizing it against their political enemies. Like always.

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by ceejayoz on Monday October 31, 2022 @06:27AM (#33403944)
Cancel culture isn’t new. We just used to call it “being tarred and feathered” or “being run out of town for dating a black man”.

If you went to high school in the US, you probably read “The Scarlet Letter”. That’s about someone getting canceled, too.

Shame for behaviors frowned upon by your community has been with us forever. Even chimps throw bad actors out of the group.

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by commoner on Sunday October 30, 2022 @05:50PM (#33399143)
Free and open source software does not discriminate based on political ideology. Unlike Twitter, which is a single instance controlled by a single corporation, Mastodon allows each instance operator to set their own rules. Each Mastodon user can choose the instance (or instances, since most Mastodon clients support multiple accounts) to register their account on.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by augustuspolius on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:22PM (#33399545)
So is the only meaningful difference the scale of an instance? If a single Mastodon instance becomes Twitter-size, then its owners will have the same power over the users and will face the same challenges as the current Twitter? They won't be able to ban users cross-instance, but if they ban you on that instance, wouldn't you have to create a new account somewhere else (i.e. start from zero).
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by commoner on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:45PM (#33399770)
Mastodon will not evolve into a single-instance monolith like Twitter because fediverse users are too diverse to agree on a single set of rules. Some instances are general purpose while others focus on specific topics. Some welcome certain types of content while others don't.

If you choose an instance with rules that you agree to follow, you're not likely to be blocked in the first place. But if your Mastodon account is blocked on an instance, it's easy to make a new one on a different instance. There are many other instances to choose from and you can regain your social graph by following everyone again.

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by yanderekko on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:06PM (#33399326)
Yeah, it's ironic that Twitter is allegedly more "Nazi-friendly" than Mastadon - presumably this "Nazi-friendly" shift will be due to a pullback on the aggressive, centralized moderation of mainstream conservative viewpoints. But Mastadon doesn't have this to begin with! I guess the argument is that within Mastadon, it's easier to create your own filter bubbles that would allow you to enjoy an experience untainted by "Nazis"?
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by witheld on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:19PM (#33399498)
Your local instance moderators choose are responsible for who their server interacts with. Ultimately this creates many segmented branching networks of federation, and with an appropriate instance, nazis won’t exist in your network.
Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by bheadmaster on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:26PM (#33399586)
> I guess the argument is that within Mastadon, it's easier to create your own filter bubbles that would allow you to enjoy an experience untainted by "Nazis"?

This is absolutely the argument.

It seems that for some people, the ability to control your own environment is not enough - they want the authority to control everyone else's environment, to make it impossible for people they disagree with to exist.

Of course, it always starts with Nazis, because Nazis are universally hated and not arguing against Nazis will get you labeled as one very quick. But in order to be able to make it impossible for one group of people to exist, you must have the ability to make it impossible for any group of people to exist. And that's power I would not trust anyone with.

Re:Twitter features Mastodon is better for not having by TeMPOraL on Sunday October 30, 2022 @06:16PM (#33399455)
That's true on paper, but is glossing over a huge issue: the Fediverse is strongly politicized. Mastodon instances are under pressure to not federate with undesirables, under threat of being defederated by others. As a result, you have one "primary" network of instances whose admins and members either subscribe to specific kind of political extremism, or are at least willing to acquiesce to it for the sake of the users to have anyone to talk to, and a forest of small clusters. The "primary" network and secondary clusters don't talk to each other, and associating yourself with the latter is a quick way to be booted off the former.

Technically, this is federation working as intended, but it's not as diverse and inclusive as it advertises - on the contrary, it's more like a HOA that has a right to ban condo owners from talking to each other.

It's a nice place to be when you're not into politicking, but then so is Twitter, so it's not that big of a win. A more compelling argument for Mastodon is that it's community-funded, so it's not out to sell your eyeballs.