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Re:Yet another scientific body has debunked bitemark analysis by derefr on Thursday October 20, 2022 @03:27PM (#33279457)
> fiber analysis is also fake as hell (like saying: these threads came from your carpet, or your shirt).

I'm not a forensic technician, but I've watched probably every episode of every true-crime forensic documentary TV show / YouTube channel / podcast / etc that exists; which probably has some weak but non-negligible correlation with having a gestalt impression of what people do and don't use forensic techniques for in practice. (At least in the "solved" cases, since the point of these shows is "how they solved it.")

In every use of "fiber analysis" I ever saw covered, where the "fiber analysis" was actually used to prove something, the thing they're always noticing is "trilobal fibers" — presumably because, at least for some period in recent history, those type of fibers only ever got used by specific manufacturers for specific use-cases (vehicle manufacturers, for car floor matting, IIRC); and weren't part of the composition of anything sold to individuals at retail (except, perhaps, replacement car floor mats.) So "trilobal fibers on the body" could be taken to imply "this person was at some point in a car footwell/trunk."

I don't ever recall any case that made a "fiber analysis" claim other than that particular one. (Maybe once someone claimed something about what proprietary dyes were used on the fibers via GCMS assay — but that's not really "fiber analysis" per se.)

Re:Yet another scientific body has debunked bitemark analysis by giantg2 on Thursday October 20, 2022 @03:48PM (#33279759)
I don't have a link handy, but there was a huge FBI scandle where their experts were essentially calling things a match to a specific person, etc.

But yes, the science is fine if interpreted correctly. The correct phrasing would be exclude or not exclude a suspect. Or for your example, it could be consistent with someone having been in a vehicle. The problem is when the experts say they must have been in a vehicle, or especially a specific individual vehicle.

Re:Yet another scientific body has debunked bitemark analysis by Ekaros on Thursday October 20, 2022 @04:09PM (#33280031)
That seems something that should be criminal. And realistically always asked how many vehicles with this type of material is there around?
Re:Yet another scientific body has debunked bitemark analysis by WaitWaitWha on Thursday October 20, 2022 @05:07PM (#33280703)
The judge should have thrown it out.

Second thing they teach in forensics is that unless I witness the actual event, it is really hard to tie it to a specific person. I can present dozens and dozens of circumstantial evidence which has sufficient weight for a reasonable person to make that inference, but I cannot attest to that.

Re:Yet another scientific body has debunked bitemark analysis by giantg2 on Thursday October 20, 2022 @08:06PM (#33282524)
Judges should do a lot of things. In reality, their quality and knowledge varies greatly.
Re:Yet another scientific body has debunked bitemark analysis by wahern on Thursday October 20, 2022 @11:54PM (#33284332)
Any judge worth their salt would prohibit or censor witness testimony making conclusory statements, especially based on circumstantial evidence. This is Evidence 101. Everybody knows the so-called "hearsay" rule, but almost every rule in evidence revolves around one core precept--no evidence is per se conclusive, and the function of testimony of any sort isn't to submit conclusions to the question at issue.

But implying conclusions is exactly what both the defense and prosecutor are working at; they're constantly playing word games, and some judges would certainly be better than others at seeing through the B.S.

Re:Yet another scientific body has debunked bitemark analysis by paulmd on Friday October 21, 2022 @10:45AM (#33288513)
Judges are elected in many areas of the US so they're potentially literally some rando in a robe who wants to put "bad guys" in jail, not some master of critical thinking.
Re:Yet another scientific body has debunked bitemark analysis by giantg2 on Friday October 21, 2022 @02:10PM (#33291175)
Yeah, and the other way you get judges is via appointment. So there's a chance you have a hack that put in because the executive leader likes their politics.