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Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by fabianhjr on Monday October 17, 2022 @05:46PM (#33239943)
Public Transit (from local buses to inter-city trains) should be high quality and frequent.

That is reality in a lot of the world including Europe, China, and South America.

I agree with the sentiment of not generally needing to have a car and fortunately that is the case in most of the world (except the USA)

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by andrepd on Monday October 17, 2022 @06:39PM (#33240421)
In part of Europe, China, and South America.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by bombcar on Monday October 17, 2022 @10:50PM (#33242426)
More and more public transit is requiring a smartphone or an elaborate and complicated setup with contact cards. It’s getting annoying.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by midasuni on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @04:46AM (#33244598)
Touch a piece of plastic when you start, toich again when you end. It’s not exactly complicated. You can buy the plastic for cash, or use the one almost everyone has in their wallet, or use a phone.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by midoridensha on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @08:14PM (#33255812)
It's really not at all. In Japan, you just buy a debit card and swipe that every time you enter or exit a station. When it gets low, you stop at a vending machine and put more cash on it. It doesn't get any simpler, and it's totally anonymous.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by fomine3 on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:54PM (#33256487)
You underestimate how difficult to buy a correct ticket
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by eru on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @12:37AM (#33243032)
Public Transit isn't the (only) alternative to cars.

Compact layouts that enable walking or biking are another alternative.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by scarface74 on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @01:01AM (#33243157)
Yeah I’m sure the older people who don’t want cellphones are going to love biking and walking everywhere.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by jacobolus on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @01:34AM (#33243338)
Walkable cities are much more accessible to elderly people (many of whom cannot drive) than car-only cities.

That’s one of the main reasons that elderly people from the suburbs often move to retirement communities which are designed at pedestrian scale.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by jackvalentine on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @01:14AM (#33243216)
I’m sure they will too! And I’m not being facetious in saying it.

Walkable, bikeable cities are human cities.

(And they’re also the kind of cities that mobility aids like scooters can thrive in.)

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by Ekaros on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @03:22AM (#33244051)
Not necessarily everywhere, but they are probably perfectly happy to walk 10-15 minutes for groceries and such. The daily neccessities.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by anhner on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @05:03AM (#33244713)
Daily necessities and daily excercise. For some of these people it's the part of the day they look most forward to.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by autoexec on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @05:05PM (#33253953)
Walking to a store everyday to buy only their daily necessities would end up costing them a lot more than if they were buying a bunch of what they need in bulk, and nobody ( especially an elderly person) is going to walk home carrying around their items in bulk sizes.

Even for people lucky enough to live in those rare areas where you can walk to a grocery store, it's extremely useful to have access to a car you can fill up with large items.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by anhner on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @05:02AM (#33244709)
Do you seriously think it's easier for a 80-year-old to hop in a car to go somewhere than walk 10 minutes to the store in a more compact city or take the bus?

Plus, look at the Netherlands, geriatric people who've biked their whole lives and maintained good physical shape have no problem continuing to bike.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by melagonster on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @07:55PM (#33255698)
maybe they need motorcycle? this can prevent they can't ride bicycle.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by midoridensha on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @08:12PM (#33255802)
Motorcycles are extremely heavy and take a certain amount of physical strength to operate.

For elderly people who have trouble pedaling, the answer is an e-bike.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by adrianN on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @03:43AM (#33244197)
Sadly, there are plenty of places in Europe that don't have frequent high quality public transport.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @04:30AM (#33244504)
There are many places where bus comes every half an hour, and there are on average 1-2 passengers on it. I think in those towns it would be cheaper for local council to just pay for Uber service for everyone who needs public transportation. No need to buy expensive buses, maintain bus stops, stations and depots, pay drivers and administrators salaries and pensions etc.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by yakireev on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @04:42AM (#33244578)
> There are many places where bus comes every half an hour, and there are on average 1-2 passengers on it

Well, no surprise there are so few passengers: the bus comes every half an hour! Make it once every two hours, and there will be no passengers at all.

"Every half an hour" is an option for the desperate. Also, that bus is probably stuck with cars when there's heavy traffic, while being slower than cars when there isn't. And it does not go exactly where you want to be. Would _you_ use such a bus service if you weren't forced to due to circumstances?

The answer for shitty public transport offering should not be eliminating public transport offering.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by eru on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @08:45AM (#33246326)
Well, it depends. Public transport only really makes sense when you have enough density.

If you have the typical North American rules that make density illegal, even the best public transport won't safe you. In fact, it might be throwing good money after bad money.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by eru on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @05:09AM (#33244744)
The local council can just give poor people money, then they can pay Uber (or buy bread or beer, if they need it more).
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by yakireev on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @05:19AM (#33244796)
"public transport riders" != "poor people", unless your bus service is specifically designed to be miserable.
Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by eru on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @08:44AM (#33246310)
Yes? I never said otherwise.

I just don't think non-poor people need subsidised Uber-rides nor any other handouts from the local council.

For clarity: the context was for local councils to give money to Uber instead of running a bus service. Which is plausible idea. I just don't think you need to be so specific: give people money, so they can buy goods and services they deem most beneficial (including Uber rides).

Now going one step further: only give the money to poor people. Welfare for rich people is a bit silly.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by yakireev on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:24AM (#33246723)
I'm all for giving more money to poor people, but how is that related to public transport? "Let's sell for scrap metal what's left of our public transit system and give the proceedings to the poor" would be a mad proposition.

I'm a regular user of public transport. I don't own a car, don't have a drivers license and call taxi/uber maybe once or twice per year. I am lucky enough to live in a place where that's not just possible, but easy, easier than driving a car. And I'm not poor. I can afford a car, just don't want to have one.

Public transport is not a handout to the poor, it is a service which makes life better for everyone. If yours is so bad only poor people would use it - maybe it's time to fix it.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by eru on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @04:53AM (#33259370)
For what it's worth, I never owned a car in my life.

(I currently live in Singapore, which has excellent public transport.)

My suggestion was conditional: if a city has already decided that Uber is better than public transport, then they should still not give Uber money. But instead, give the money to poor people.

However: public transport only really makes sense when you have enough density.

If you have the typical North American rules that make density illegal, even the best public transport won't safe you. In fact, it might be throwing good money after bad money.

I don't say that density needs to become before public transport. Just the opposite: you need to put transportation in place before people come. But you also need to make density legal before you think about public transport.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by autoexec on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @04:57PM (#33253823)
> I just don't think non-poor people need subsidised Uber-rides

I agree, if you're going to provide financial assistance it should go to those in need, but I don't think non-poor people need or want to be saddled with an added expense to replace the public transpiration services they already have and use.

I think there does come a point where a community can decide their public transportation costs more to operate than it's worth, but unless it's consistently losing massive amounts of money it's probably not worth it to take a valuable resource from the public just to save a bit of money. Especially if that community has any desire to grow.

Re:Does cashless society discriminate against the poor and e... by eru on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @04:54AM (#33259374)
> I agree, if you're going to provide financial assistance it should go to those in need, but I don't think non-poor people need or want to be saddled with an added expense to replace the public transpiration services they already have and use.

In places where public transport works and is used, I agree.