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Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by andrewflnr on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:09PM (#33195897)
Or: don't take your rental car that relies on cell service out of cell range.

Was anyone else expecting a story about actually going off the grid, you know, permanently?

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by kube-system on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:24PM (#33196039)
It's unreasonable to expect everyone to critique the engineering of their rental car before renting it. It's the engineers job to make sure the product is capable of being fit for the task it's intended for.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by andrewflnr on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:43PM (#33196238)
Fair, sort of. I shouldn't blame the victim too much. That said, engineers have to make assumptions somewhere. I suspect remote camping trips are just too far out of the envelope that ZipCar was designing for, that envelope being cities.

But really I'm just irritated by the bait and switch title, that to me promised a much more interesting topic than "here's a thing that can go wrong with one car rental company in situations it clearly wasn't designed for".

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by kube-system on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:53PM (#33196339)
Isn’t the stereotypical use case for zip car to take it on a weekend trip out of town where public transit doesn’t go? National parks are very popular recreational attractions.

Not to mention, there are plenty of places in cities without cell service, like parking garages.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by maximus-decimus on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:20PM (#33196635)
Or recently Telus, one of the big 3 Canadian COM companies, went down for a whole day. Imagine cars stopping to work because of that.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by johnny-lee on Friday October 14, 2022 @02:24AM (#33200229)
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by maximus-decimus on Friday October 14, 2022 @09:21AM (#33203161)
Yes. Thank you.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by VBprogrammer on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:42PM (#33196849)
Maybe it's pivoted since I used it but I always thought they where for people who needed cars for a couple of hours. Not weekend trips. Real car rental companies were far cheaper for that use case.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by brewdad on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:09PM (#33197100)
Many traditional rental car companies won't rent to college aged customers, or will add large daily markups. For a significant market segment Zipcar-esque companies are the best, or only, option.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by alistairSH on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:23AM (#33204760)
Not sure about pricing, but I had friends who lived in downtown DC and they'd use Zip for overnight trips to visit in the suburbs. I imagine it was easier to stick with a service they already used (and had cars locally) than schedule a rental with pick-up/drop-off. But for longer trips, they used normal rentals.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by moonka on Thursday October 13, 2022 @07:19PM (#33197752)
Or the ferries (where a number of cars have gotten stuck I think).
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by maxerickson on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:27PM (#33197296)
If they aren't going to design for taking the car out of range of cellular, then they should geofence the thing.

Of course it can't just turn off when it hits the fence, but a notification would be a pretty good idea.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by diggernet on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:58PM (#33197570)
If the car was designed to stay in the city, they need to stop saying things like:

"Select your Zipcar, pack your tent and pick your spot, from national parks with campsites to choice spots listed on USACampgrounds.info." [1]

Besides, even driving on the freeway between two cities, you can often find dead spots. Imagine pulling into a rest area in the middle of nowhere for a bio-break, only to find yourself stranded.

[1] https://www.zipcar.com/ziptopia/best-vacations-for-solo-trav...

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by andrewflnr on Thursday October 13, 2022 @09:08PM (#33198526)
Alright, you got me. :D I still think I'm probably right about the implicit assumptions in the product design, but that does mean their advertising is misleading at best.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by alistairSH on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:18AM (#33204690)
The Blue Ridge Parkway in the mid-Atantic has massive stretches of cellular dead zones. The entire road is a popular destination, and many at the most popular destinations for views and hikes are dead zones.

Peaks of Otter comes to mind as a fantastic day-trip or weekend destination from DC. Despite being a very popular spot for day hikes, and having a lodge, it does not have cellular service. Nobody would think their rental car would be inaccessible at a popular resort area.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by balderdash on Thursday October 13, 2022 @07:55PM (#33198018)
The default state for the consumer is: “it’s a car, it doesn’t require cell service”

If zipcar put a huge banner prior to checkout saying that you will not be able to access the car if you don’t have cell service, I bet a lot of people would think twice, which is why they don’t, which is what makes it shitty

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by wisnoskij on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:19PM (#33195998)
How was this ever allowed? This sounds like litigation central. How you can rent cars that will brick themselves in tunnels, valleys, and in the country? Do cell phones even work in most parking buildings?
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by brewdad on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:10PM (#33197111)
I can't find it now but I read an article a couple months ago where a customer was stranded in an underground parking garage due to lack of cell signal.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by merely-unlikely on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:12PM (#33197124)
> Do cell phones even work in most parking buildings?

This is why Zipcar issues a card for unlocking the car. I'm not sure why the people in the article didn't have one.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by saurik on Thursday October 13, 2022 @07:45PM (#33197944)
I have talked with someone else who didn't seem to have a card, so maybe it is now optional? It was admittedly a really annoying--if totally understandable--delay when I first went to use the service, and they probably lose a ton of customers who would otherwise impulse buy their way into their first ride were it not for "and now wait forever for your card to arrive". The card definitely solves this problem, though, as as far as I can tell the car does have local storage for how long you are allowed to unlock it. (Your big problem is if you then get back to the car late and the car re-locks. It has no concept of being home or being done other than your time as determined by the service when you last talked to it is up.)
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by crooked-v on Thursday October 13, 2022 @10:27PM (#33198965)
The article notes that the card won't work in those situations either.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by dredmorbius on Thursday October 13, 2022 @11:58PM (#33199479)
The card was also nonfunctional, though whether this was related to the lacking phone coverage isn't clear:

The next morning, the family tried to leave for sightseeing, but Mr. McCarthy couldn’t unlock the car with his app or RFID card.

From TFA.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by alistairSH on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:29AM (#33204854)
Th car doesn't shut off or fail to start. It just won't unlock. And yes, you can get stuck in underground parking just as easily as a National Park.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by Scoundreller on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:18PM (#33195985)
This hasn’t happened to me, but I would have thought it was your phone over Bluetooth that unlocked the car after you book it.

I don’t 100% know how zipcar operates in each market but I’m guessing these long-distance bookings are pre-booked and you can’t just leave the car in the middle of nowhere.

Your phone and the car would only need to phone home at the start of a reservation.

I guess the car itself doesn’t have cellular at all and relies on the user’s phone? Could easily run into issues where the user has service but the car does not.

Could also see this playing out in underground garages.

It’s unclear why the car needs to phone-home for each unlock/start (but no restrictions on operation) within a reservation within its geo-fence. Common sense would be if the car is where you last dropped it off, it should allow you back in within the time of your reservation.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by _jal on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:19PM (#33195994)
Kind of, but it is the WSJ.

Tangent, but it is interesting to me, how many people now seem to be unwilling to go out of cell range. It reminds me of people decades ago who would go camping, but only with a car. If you had to leave powered-travel range, they were out.

This is less the case for me now, but there was a time when leaving my cell at home was a huge luxury. And I still enjoy days when I can go do things without it - pretty much the only time anymore when my time is truly my own.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by servercobra on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:57PM (#33196390)
We just ran into this for my yearly Boundary Waters canoe trip where cell coverage is spotty at best if you're a couple lakes in. Some of our significant others, especially those who just had or were expecting kids, convinced us to rent a satellite communicator for emergencies. I get it, but part of the experience is being completely disconnected and knowing you're on your own if anything goes wrong.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by thwayunion on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:40PM (#33196827)
> but part of the experience is being completely disconnected and knowing you're on your own if anything goes wrong.

No.

If you cannot self-rescue, someone will notice your absence and SAR will eventually be deployed. Leaving behind your inReach requires a full search, which wastes valuable SAR resources and possibly even puts SAR professionals at additional unnecessary risk. If the emergent event is the result of something that impacts a large area -- storms, earthquakes, avalanche, rock fall, etc. -- other people may die because SAR spent too much time on you.

If there is ANY chance that SAR will be deployed to help you -- requested by you or otherwise! -- it is incumbent upon you to either carry an inReach or give regional SAR an explicit "do not rescue" request prior to departure.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by catiopatio on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:17PM (#33196608)
> … part of the experience is being completely disconnected and knowing you're on your own if anything goes wrong.

Frankly, that’s silly.

In the very unlikely event that something goes seriously wrong, having a satellite-based emergency beacon is easily the difference between life and death or serious life-long injury.

I’ve spent plenty of time in the backcountry where cell service is not just spotty, but nonexistent. Now that beacons are cheap and widely available, I always take one.

Being self-sufficient and disconnected are good, healthy experiences — having an emergency communication mechanism for emergencies that you cannot handle yourself doesn’t detract from that.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by thwayunion on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:16PM (#33197171)
It's much more than that. If you are leaving your sat device at home to "up the stakes", you need to let SAR know that this is the game you are playing. You need to make sure they know you do not want or expect a rescue under any circumstances and you need to make sure that the absolute safety of all other parties, including the SAR team themselves, will take priority over a search on your behalf.

And if their response is "that is stupid, take your sat device" then do so.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by thwayunion on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:28PM (#33196713)
> Or: don't take your rental car that relies on cell service out of cell range.

The company advertises weekend camping/hiking trips as a use-case on their blog [1].

Also: they weren't an hour down a dirt road on BLM/NF land. They were at a very popular trailhead near a highway. The women were at a popular trail on a national park.

Good thing they were in the PNW and during good weather, because this could've easily turned deadly in many other parts of the country. Being locked out of my car unexpectedly after a light&fast winter objective in the mountains or a light&fast summer objective in the desert -- especially solo -- would get pretty serious pretty fast. Hopefully I would be able to bust the windows and get at my water and bivy; if not, that would be a scary and dangerous night.

> Was anyone else expecting a story about actually going off the grid, you know, permanently?

Not per se, but definitely didn't expect a story about a parking lot at a roadside trailhead of a popular beginner day hike...

[1] https://www.zipcar.com/ziptopia/camping

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by SECProto on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:28PM (#33196716)
> Was anyone else expecting a story about actually going off the grid, you know, permanently?

Yep, I clicked on it looking for an article about pitfalls experienced by someone (or several someones) building off-grid housing. Oh well

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by merely-unlikely on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:08PM (#33197097)
> The trio had rented a technology-reliant Hyundai Elantra from Zipcar Inc.

I've used Zipcar for a while in NYC and until relatively recently they didn't allow mobile unlock because a lot of parking garages don't have cell service. You had to use the card that comes with the subscription.

Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by fortran77 on Thursday October 13, 2022 @07:36PM (#33197879)
Do you really think the people who rented the cars knew that this service relied on cell coverage?
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by chrisbrandow on Thursday October 13, 2022 @07:39PM (#33197895)
Happened to my daughter and friend at a trailhead in Shenandoah national park. They defo need a better (bluetooth at least) system.
Re:How Not to Go Off the Grid by badwolf on Thursday October 13, 2022 @07:48PM (#33197970)
I've had trouble with zipcars not connecting in parking garages... Where the zipcars live/supposed to return to.